Material Certification - Chinese GB and ASME 2

peterjung · Dec 29, 2009

Hi all

Can someone please help answer a simple question on material certification:

We are sourcing raw material in China for manufacture at our Chinese factory.

Of course this material has been inspected to GB code and standard.

This mainly concerns mild steel plate, angle and the like. Nothing exotic.

Now we have a client who is demanding that all material must be "ASME material". They do not say how they define “ASME material”.

I have examined the mill sheets for our Chinese GB material with the mill sheets for the same "ASME material" that we use in the USA. These are identical in chemical analysis and mechanical properties. Essentially the actual material is identical.

My question is this:

Can the GB material be "re-inspected" by a qualified third party (SGS for example) to ensure that it complies with the requirements of the ASME material code and then legitimately described as "ASME material".

Any help or advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance.

SJones · Dec 29, 2009

"ASME Material" doesn't mean anything at all. "Material in accordance with ASME XXX" is much clearer. I would suspect that your client wishes to see a statement of conformity with an appropriate ASME specification printed on the inspection documents. A third party could issue such a certificate as per EN 10204 3.2 after being involved in the 're-testing'.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

peterjung · Dec 29, 2009

Hi Steve

Thank you for your reply. I agree that "ASME material" doesn't mean anything and despite our requests they will not offer any more clarification!

Your reply is very helpful.

metengr · Dec 30, 2009

I agree with the above regarding specifying "ASME material". However, there is more to this than comparing chemical composition and mechanical properties - you have melting practice, marking, inspection requirements, etc. This could be overcome with re-certification of this material to ASME/ASTM standard specifications.

However, I really believe your client is telling you in their own way NO material sourcing from China.

MikeMet · Dec 31, 2009

We do third party varification of carbon and stainless steels in China at a lab we have qualified. We also have the luxury of having a company metallurgist at an office in Shanghai to help oversee this work. We have also developed a local approved supplier list for carbon steels because we had some poor quality steel that had satisfactory CMTR's. In one case the data on the CMTR was simply falsified and that drove us to third party varification.

We also make third party varification part of the fabrication specification with the shops making the vessels and heat exchangers. They have to get it done at our lab, we approve the results, and we have the right to refuse the material at no cost increase to us if the material does not pass.

peterjung · Dec 31, 2009

metengr - The client says he does not have a problem with "Made In China", just that everything should be "ASME material". For the major components we can source locally material with ASME material certs and this is not a problem. However we have a number of common components that are manufatured for stock. We do not have the ability to trace MTR's for this stock material through to the finished product for any paticular project so using special material for these stock items becomes very impractical.

MikeMet thanks for your interesting post. We have a very strict system of vendor approval and we are fairly confident in our suppliers. Recently we had one client who insisted on all materials undergoing secondary PMI testing - thankfully all results matched the original MTR's.

Again, thank you for all the contributions to this topic - I am very far from an expert in this filed so it is very helpful to get the thoughts and experiences of others!

Happy New Year!

PAN · Jan 2, 2010

peterjung,

In my view, you should consider in detail to say "equivalent material". For an example, carbon steel plate can be structural quality or pressure vessel quality...

PMI may not be necessary for your carbon steel material...

EdStainless · Jan 2, 2010

If they are looking to build something to the B&PV Code then the material must be certified to ASME specifications. If this is being done after the fact, not by the original manufacturer then you will probably have to test each piece.
This is really an issue of identification and traceability.

We audited 11 mills in China to find one that could do work for us. And we still witness every run. We have not found a steel company in China yet that takes this seriously at all levels of the organization.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

peterjung · Jan 2, 2010

Hi EdStainless

No, our products are not covered by ASME B31. Our products are auxiliary equipment for boilers but outside the pressure boundry.

Thanks for your input!

PAN · Jan 2, 2010

peterjung,

If you require "fully comply" with ASME II, material testing and traceability record shall be considered. I concur with the comment from EdStainless...

However, you said, you require material outside pressure boundary this may be accepted by your client...

It will be better, if you can give specific requirement of your project in the post e.g. grade of material, design condition, etc...

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