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Sonotube Tie Reinforcement

bigmig

Structural
Aug 8, 2008
394
I have designed sonotube piers for many years for light use residential decks basically, where
the reaction is around 2500 lbs, the sono tube is 10 inch diameter and extends 3 to 4 foot into the ground
where it is supported by a pad footing. We never used ties. The guy who taught me never used ties.

ACI requires that concrete piers have minimum longitudinal and tie reinforcement (.0025 % for vertical steel)
I have seen requiremenst for 4 bars min, and ties at a spacing of 16 bar diameters.

I seldom see engineers or builders put ties in these type of concrete supports.

I know that code says do it.....is there somewhere in the code that gives an exception? I can't seem to find it.
It seems like overkill; I know I know....follow the code. I'm just trying to see if practicality has caught up to the code creators.
 
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Whether anchored at the top, or embedded I always specify (2) ties in the top 5". ACI says this is for when Anchors occur at the top of a column, but the embeded condition seems worse to me so I use it for both.

Ref: ACI-318 14 10.7.6.1.6
 
Might these fall under the ACI Plain Concrete specifications perhaps?
 
Might these fall under the ACI Plain Concrete specifications perhaps?
This. I design deck footings to plain concrete standards. No rebar needed.

Now, if there's any uplift or lateral load on those foundations I'd want some sort of rebar. 10" dia x 4'-0" tall is likely to crack, neutering any uplift or lateral resistance you may have wanted. But if it's all gravity and the length is only for frost depth, I wouldn't be too worried.
 
This. I design deck footings to plain concrete standards. No rebar needed.

Now, if there's any uplift or lateral load on those foundations I'd want some sort of rebar. 10" dia x 4'-0" tall is likely to crack, neutering any uplift or lateral resistance you may have wanted. But if it's all gravity and the length is only for frost depth, I wouldn't be too worried.
Same. Some building inspectors will ask the contractor to put rebar in just because, but if it's a regular deck footing I design them as plain. If it's a pergola or something with uplift then adding some vertical bars is a good move.
 
Circular ties in residential where there is no other major reinforced concrete element warranting a proper rebar supplier / detailer? Best to leave them out if you want any prospect of repeat work. If you are doing a monster custom home with suspended concrete elements / shop drawings / the works? Add them if you need but otherwise plain concrete will work sans uplift / lateral as mentioned above.
 
Well, here is a design from a local firm. 18"Ø and the demand is about 2k. Seems a bit much.

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Well, here is a design from a local firm. 18"Ø and the demand is about 2k. Seems a bit much.
Probably a swag at justifying some uplift resistance, but yea if that is residential it looks way beyond and the contractors I deal with.
 
I can get on board with the vertical bars (I usually show #4's), but the stirrups?
 
For a residential deck I would probably specify longitudinal bars, but not circular or spriral ties, because of the difficulty in fabricating them correctly without ordering from a real rebar fabricator. FYI, I know the question is about embedded sonotubes, but I recently assessed a deck with spread footings and sonotube peirs above grade, and one of the sonotube piers was loose and could be pushed over by hand, because there was obviously no rebar tying the pier to the footing.

To the OP, why a pad footing at the bottom of a 4' deep by 10" diameter embedded sonotube? How big is the pad footing? If you have to excavate for the pad footing, why not just use a larger diameter sonotube/caisson? What am I missing?
 

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