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I agree with you. And they did it (mis-apply) because it is most convenient to them. I am in the CMM group / metrology and being asked to measure and qualify the gages. Sic!! What tolerances shoud I use? Whatever tolerances which protect my product and not their gage.

Doug, Yes, I am. Gage suppliers who pretend that can give / sell us everything. Like 50%- 80% even 100% of the part tolerances. They are basing their arguments per this statement "b.) All fixture details such as check pins and bushings, details used for electronic measuring devices, etc...

Mech1595, I am not sure the automotive adopted Y14.43. Are you sure about that? From GM standard 1. All fixture details including fixture bases, datums, and inspection details shall be accurately manufactured in order to ensure the accuracy required for product inspection. 2. General...

Doug, Sorry to probe it further, but this one is of my pet peeve. Based on what document you are saying that -- in automotive in particular-- the 10% is the rule ? I agree with you but I cannot find a document to show just that ("Regarding the 10%, this is a common target (at least in...

Doug Hunter, Recommendation A looks very complicated with sooooo many setups. I don't like to make another datum if really does not needed "Establish C, D, E... datums as needed at the other bearing supports in between" If I am missunderstanding your proposal, please let me know. sorry about...

Thank you for the picture. I will state that the 3 bearing features COULD be used as datum features to drive a common axis A-B-C. And then use runout (or even concentricity per ASME 2009, yes, I know opening a can of worms--but maybe dynamic balance is important for this pump and we assume...

Can you post a "fake" adjusted picture/ drawing, as I don't have such a good imagination...a picture worth a 1000 of words.

I don't see a big problem is you are using a common axis driven from A-B-C, if that's the true physical reality of your assembly.

I have not done any research nor any analysis and I am not intending to do such. Was just a question for pmarc (because I knew he is going to give me a straight answer--and THANK YOU pmarc) to understand the concept and principles pertaining to my side question. That's all.

pmarc, Well, well, sometimes I remember only few important words which, in my brain, I label the entire thread/ discussion. And fortunately (or unfortunately) those relevant words come from you…not sure why ?[bigsmile] But ISO versus ASME is one of my top curiosities…..I want to learn more...

pmarc, Sorry to bother you directly, but I remember not long ago we talked here on the forum about my inquiry. I cannot remember what was the outcome, nor I can find the thread/ discussion. Must be my old age. Thank you very much for your help in indicating (if you know) the thread or answer...

3DDave and pmarc, That's why I am asking if in ISO the rules are the same? The OP clarified that his drawings are per ISO GPS (not ASME), hence per my knowledge (but I might be wrong here) the rules are different (at least per today's rules and not per tomorrorw ISO new revisions). Should we...

pmarc, Didn't you say that the diamond pins are "unnecessarily distraction"? I am wondering if the pins are cylindrical or diamond shaped ones? Ref quote: "True if the dowel pins are designed to constrain X translation only."

pmarc, I think this is where majority of ASME people sturggle (including myself) How come, if TED’s are shown on the drawing, the spacing between the holes is STILL left uncontrolled. The mindset of ISO is of a different approach altogether. Why we have TED’s then if they are good for nothing?

Do you need one or you just supposed to "measured" it from the 3D CAD model and consider it basic or TED. Or if A1 is primary then you locate (again basic) other features or datum targets FROM it. I am learning MBD hence asking..............

J-P, I understand. Better safe than sorry. The original OP question has nothing to do with ASME. I brought it up (ASME) for my own edification of how to "translate" some concepts (7-33) from .5 to ISO. By anyway, in ISO the independency principle is defaulted hence I will stick with my...

J-P, What exactly is NOT true about ISO? Could you, please, provide more details?

J-P, In your attached picture is your intent to compare ASME with ISO? Or both pictures are intended to be ISO GPS defined parts? I am asking because simultaneous requirement is not default in ISO hence your left picture (with position, and assuming ISO GPS) since does not have SIM nor CZ...

Garland23 Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. Now you realize that my statement you quoted is a direct copy and paste from ISO1101-2017, right? So I am not sure why my replay is incorrect, as you indicated, since I was only copy-paste directly from the standard. Could you...

So which statement from my above replay you are disagreeing with? Could you, please point it out? I am confused now. Just quote it (copy and paste) here, please