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  1. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    Whoa! I have no idea what a troll is, but I think I can guess. If you notice, I never asked for advice on my flow issues. That conversation was started by others and I only responded to questions that were asked of me. In fact, at one point (22 Feb 07 13:34) I tried to get everyone back on...
  2. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    katmar- Do you ever sleep? I'm kidding! I will try observing the startup for bubbles. We have not been able to shop test this pump. Our rebuilder does not have the facility to do this. We thought about setting something up to try that, but haven't gotten there yet. We have a few pumps acting...
  3. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    Thanks for the image hosting site. I hope these help. While I certainly appreciate all of the free advice, my focus at this point is the possibility of entrapped air as shown. I also should have pointed out that all of the pipe is either buried under 10'-20' of dirt or encased in concrete...
  4. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    It's a vertical pump. Inlet bell elevation = 72' Sump water level = 82' Pump discharge elevation = 93'
  5. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    The vertical pump intake bell is at 72' and the centerline of the discharge pipe is 93'. The sump water level is 82'. I know my NPSHa (~40') is marginal to my NPSHr (~34'). That's material for another post. katmar- What calcs are you refering to? I assume it has to do with the self-venting vs...
  6. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    We've gotten a little off track. I must have confused everyone. My total static head is only 19' (100'-81'). Add another 2' for dynamic losses and I'm up to 21' or so. I'm wondering if trapped air in the long horizontal pipe might be causing my reduction in flow (from 15500 according to the...
  7. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    katmar- Thanks for all your input, but I'm confused. The BEP of my pump curve is around 31' and 13500 gpm. Is this what is refered to as "designed for" as others are indicating? My understanding is that the pump will operate at any point along the curve. In our case (with only ~21' of head) the...
  8. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    The sump water level is 19' below the discharge level. Elevations: sump water level = 81' 120' horizontal @ pump discharge = 93' 60' horizontal run = 83' discharge = 100' katmar- Our pumps do not currently have gauges for pump discharge, but we are working on getting them installed next week...
  9. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    rconner- I agree that an air release valve at the point where the horizontal run transitions into the down vertical run would be a good idea, but I need to have extreme confidence that there is air being trapped and reducing the flow. The cost of installing one now would be very significant and...
  10. orlandobill

    Entrapped air in horizontal pipe

    Does anyone have experience with this? Here's my situation: Vertical pump sends 15500 gpm of water into an empty 30" diameter 120' long horizontal pipe that turns down 10' vertically, turns and runs another 60' horizontally and then turns up another 20' vertically. The 60' long "trap" holds...
  11. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    Thanks ccfowler. Here's a FAQ from the HI website: Q. Our plant is operating pumps on cooling tower service which are experiencing cavitation damage to the cast iron impellers. The pumps are operating close to the best efficiency point and the NPSH available is slightly higher than the NPSH...
  12. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    Here are some more details: @14500 gpm: NPSHa = 42.32 ft NPSHr = 29.76 ft NPSH does not seem to be an issue right now.
  13. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    I agree with Artisi. Excellent post, JJPellin. Thank you everyone for your expert input. I will look into these and report back with findings and fixes. Thanks again.
  14. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    The sump is roughly a 100' square. a ------- | <-| b| |d |123 | ------- c The flow enters from side d (at the arrow) parallel to side a in a CCW flow. The pumps are lined up along side c in the corner by wall b. There is some natural circulation that we will be...
  15. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    Thanks for the reply. The installation is about 10 years old and I'm told the reduced flow has there since the beginning. There are vortices visable on the surface of the water and the pump currently being rebuilt shows cavitation wear on the impellor. The pumps are generally rebuilt each...
  16. orlandobill

    Pump dividing walls in sump

    I have an existing sump (open pool) with three (3) mixed flow, vertical pumps drawing from it. Each pump has a wall between it and the adjacent one forming a three-walled vault around each pump. At any time only 2 of the 3 pumps are running and the combinations are rotated in order to give each...
  17. orlandobill

    S-N curve for etd-150

    &quot;etd-150&quot; is basically a modified 4100H alloy steel with an ultimate stength of 150 ksi and yield of 140 ksi. It's made by LaSalle Steel and is widely used for shafting material.
  18. orlandobill

    S-N curve for etd-150

    Does anyone have or know how to get a S-N curve for etd-150?
  19. orlandobill

    Machine Design Books by Shigley

    I agree that the Design Handbook is a great resource. If it doesn't cover fasteners well enough, I suggest the Standard Handbook of Fastening and Joining by Parmley (McGraw Hill)
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