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  1. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    "I've also never found it particularly useful to pay attention to the closed-valve effects." This would indicate that communication is impossible. As the old saying goes: If I were to agree with you, we'd both be wrong.
  2. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    OK, I wasn't planning on doing this, but I'm going to have to present things as I would back in the fifties and then we'll try and work out a translation. For calculations, I used a K&E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule. Many years later, I'd get a self assembly electronic pocket calculator...
  3. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    I assumed this was understood, but I am assuming that the valve is closed.
  4. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    But, it must be emphasized that a "wave" most certainly cannot be assumed to be the same as a "front." When we speak of a wave, we normally would picture a pressure that is varying in magnitude as a function of location along the runner. With water hammer, the pressure is essentially constant...
  5. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    Rod, I can understand your confusion. Back in the fifties, I objected when others at Chrysler used words like "harmonics" when describing tuned manifolds. Water hammer fundamentals are confusing enough without the idea that we have to call on music majors.
  6. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    Rod, that which needs to be considered are the pressure fronts which traverse the intake runner while the intake valve is closed. That's pressure FRONTS and not pressure WAVES. The number of water hammer cycles ("water" being an unfortunate misnomer) determines the "harmonic" under...
  7. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    Unfortunately, CFD is of no assistance. We've passed the problem on to the programmers and dynamic fluid flow compressibility programs are often difficult to write. In this case, we're dealing with the existence of what are often called harmonics. For instance, Offy engine owners in the fifties...
  8. BillyShope

    Water hammer principles in gaseous flow

    I was an engineer at Chrysler in the fifties. (Yes, I'm that old.) At that time, it was quite easy to talk with other engineers about dynamic compressibility effects in gaseous flow. In other words, we realized that the sonic wave nonsense in Phillips' book simply could never explain the dyno...
  9. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    Here's his response and I think we'd best leave it at this: "Hate to disagree, but there IS a Panhard bar on the late 40's Fords. I happen to own a '47, and it has them, fore and aft, as did all the '42-'48 cars. In the Ford master parts book, it is called a "passenger stabilizer", and is...
  10. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    Here's the response from my Ford mechanic friend: "The early Ford rear suspension was, for the most part, unchanged between the Model T days of the early 1900's, and the last of the type, in 1948. The spring was a transverse leaf type "buggy spring" secured to the axle by a set of shackles at...
  11. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    Brian, I'm going to forward your comments to a friend (also in his mid-70s) who was a line mechanic in a Ford garage while in his teens and who must have come into contact with all the early Ford suspensions. I saw them, but was not interested enough, at the time, to really "see" them. I know...
  12. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    "Well, my '56 Buick had a torque tube same as Ford, except (istr) it used coils instead of transverse leaf springs. It drove ok, no noticeable difference between right and left turns. But, I wasn't a racer." I had a '53 Buick, which was probably the same, but, again, I was no racer. I remember...
  13. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    I would like to apologize. I'm afraid I became so fixated on the triangle I described that I began to talk about the major roll axis and the rear suspension roll axis interchangeably and without distinction. The roll axis I described...a line passing through the ball and the chassis end of the...
  14. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    Yes, I considered this, Norm, which is why I said "essentially." But, it would seem that the chassis motion from the Panhard rotation would be more of a translation than a rotation. This would be the case, for instance, with Panhard rotation without the presence of a lateral acceleration...
  15. BillyShope

    Ford torque tube trivia

    Not really a "Helpful Tip," but there's no "Interesting Trivia" choice. The simplicity of the old Ford torque tube suspension (used in the first half of the last century) is to be admired. It actually reduces to a triangle with 3 links: The axle assembly, the Panhard, and the rest of the car...
  16. BillyShope

    Increased RWD 3link design freedom

    You are attributing an understanding to me which I do not possess, which indicates that you have misunderstood my posts. I believe I have covered these matters adequately at my site, but it took me far more time to develop those pages than I care to devote to forum posts. I can only suggest...
  17. BillyShope

    Increased RWD 3link design freedom

    Since the resultant of the dynamic forces acting through the links has a line of action which passes through the rear tire patch and the instant center (Page 38)and, in addition, since a force can be considered to act anywhere along its line of action, there is no reason for a "short" instant...
  18. BillyShope

    Increased RWD 3link design freedom

    Chassis roll during launch does not occur when the driveshaft torque is cancelled. (In other words, the front lifts evenly.) Chassis roll during cornering does produce link bind when the upper and lower links are not parallel. As you've indicated, this can be minimized by placing the instant...
  19. BillyShope

    Increased RWD 3link design freedom

    The traction/cornering performance of a tire pair is maximized when the tires are equally loaded. With a RWD beam axle car, the driveshaft torque tends to unload the right rear tire. Some form of suspension asymmetry is necessary to cancel that driveshaft torque effect. While an asymmetric...
  20. BillyShope

    Increased RWD 3link design freedom

    Commonly, a 3link is considered to have 2 symmetrically positioned links, in plan view, with a third more centrally located link. Page 40 of my site provides a spreadsheet which allows much more design flexibility. (The site is essentially devoted to the presentation of foundational suspension...

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