110mpg 400bhp v8?

[70btdc]

I found a link to this engine idea whilst browsing another automotive website:

http://www.hp2g.com/technology.html

I am having some trouble grasping exactly what they claim is the main reason for the huge FE number. I can see some merit of designing the motor/generator set dirctly into the crankshaft in terms of packaging/weight, and that the cylinder deactivation will gain some efficiency, but how to they really get to 110mpg?

When cylinders are deactivated they seem to state that the friction forces are balanced by electromagnetic forces. But if this energy is recovered at the crank in the first place, then how can this raise total efficiency? Assuming we start and end with the same battery SOC and on a flat road aren't we just losing out to conversion efficiency through the motor/generator?

Any one come across this engine already? It is fitted into the Ford GT based 'Revenge Verde' Prototype Supercar.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Simple answer; they can't.

Stuff like this gets filed under "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".

 

[LionelHutz]

Yup, it sounds too good to be true. If there was an EPA mileage test like they hint at then where is the pdf of the official mileage test results? They are selling it based on it passing an emmissions test and their driving "log" proving the mileage numbers hoping to make you think the mileage log was part of the EPA tests.

If they have achieved such great performance then it would be a simple matter to convince an automotive or technical magazine to do an article. Drain the fuel cell, fill with a gallon of gas and drive till empty. Do dyno or dragstrip tests to validate the HP claims. This isn't rocket science stuff that is impossible to do like they would probably claim if asked.

I love the "pulse" operation of their motor. They have ceramic magnets fixed to the rotating assembly. This requires the coils fixed to the block to be pulsed to create a rotating force. This is basically what's called a permanent magnet DC motor and that type of motor really uses a drive controller that typically produces a 3-pahse AC output.

 

[GregLocock]

From discussions elsewhere I gather the promoter has a non-stock Mustang and regularly makes amazing claims for it. He recently withdrew from the Automotive X prize, which is approaching the deadline for actually proving that the vehicle performs as advertised. He then said some things which the promoters took exception to.

http://autoblog.xprize.org/axp/2009/06/piaxp-responds-to-hp2g-claims.html

In my opinion there is nothing positive to be gained from studying his approach, either in engineering or public relations.


Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight

 

[Marquis]

I always get skeptical when supposed technical folks talk about engine fuel efficiency improvements and then talk directly about mpg rather than what it means on a BSFC level. Still I won't dismiss out of hand....

http://www.auto-scape.com

 

[evelrod]

Marquis, now that your "over here" you should ck out Highway 70 from White Sands to Las Cruces. In 1958 driving a '49 Mercury V8 I was able to average well over 100 mpg for the 15 or so miles....Courtesy of my "Oklahoma Overdrive" <grins and apologies to my Okie friends>.

Rod

 

[patprimmer]

Rod

I am guessing it was a long downhill run and Oklahoma overdrive is what we call angle gear or coasting downhill in neutral.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[patprimmer]

Of course to gain from coasting downhill, you need to ignore the fuel used to get you to the start point.

A totally agree with Marquis. MPG is a measure of chassis fuel efficiency. BSFC is a measure of engine fuel efficiency.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Marquis]

Marquis, now that your "over here" you should ck out Highway 70 from White Sands to Las Cruces. In 1958 driving a '49 Mercury V8 I was able to average well over 100 mpg for the 15 or so miles....Courtesy of my "Oklahoma Overdrive" <grins and apologies to my Okie friends>.

Hi Evelrod! I've driven almost everywhere across the USA so far, first moved to SC, then to Chicago and now I'm in California. The biggest challenge for me is to try to coax good fuel economy out of either my "70 Challenger or Dodge Ram! What is an oklaholma overdrive>?

http://www.auto-scape.com

 

[berkshire]

Marquis
It's the same as any other ethnic minority "Overdrive"
B.E.