1500HP H2O2 turbine

I'm sure some of you have looked at this:

http://www.meditech.ch/exoticthermoengineering/ete05.html

Can that be possible? I mean, 1L/sec translates to about 16GPM of 70% H2O2, to create 1500HP, with JUST the H2O2, no supplemental combustion using the liberated oxygen.

I know the turbine in my turbo will need anywhere from 25-75HP of work to create boost on my motor. If this is right, that means I could inject as litle as under 1GPM of hydrogen peroxide, and have a working "rocket turbo," a turbo with a independantly (and not exhaust) powered turbine. The same idea I had ahwile back that didn't seem practical, due to excessive comsumption.

 

[Metalguy]

A long time ago Turbonique in FL. made a variety of turbine-driven goodies, but the fuel was ethylene oxide-now known to cause cancer. They had a turbo driven by one. As bad as ethyl. oxide is, 70% H2O2 is real nasty stuff also. Avoid it if you aren't REAL sure about what you're getting into.

BTW, in the 1970's Slammin' Sammy Miller used an H2O2/silver cat. pack rocket car that accelerated so fast my brain couldn't update what my eyes saw fast enough, and the car *appeared* to move forward in jumps. He said he had enough power to cause him to "grey-out" from the accel. I think he ran over 400 MPH in the 1/4 mile.

 

[dantonks]

is there more stored energy in the h2o2/keroscene fuele rocket or the oxygen / keroscene rocket?

i think there would be a greater energy in the first one but it would be a more complex engine?

Cheers

Dan

 

[drwebb]

Saw a guy at Bikeweek two years ago who toured a homebuilt rocket-powered motorcycle at fairs and shows and stuff. I asked him about the concentration of H2O2 and he said after 9/11 he couldn't source the heavy stuff anymore (70% if memory serves) and was trying to adapt the motor to less potent, agricultural grades. You might want to check fuel availability before you spend too much effort on design.

 

[patprimmer]

I don't know where you guys live, but maybe you could source it in Mexico or Canada. Just be careful you don't get arrested as a terrorist as you cross the boarder.

Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[GraviMan]

Wowsers! Have any actual rocket turbo motors been designed around this stuff? Add hydrogen, or alcohol, to the mix and you have a serious power pack. Gotta be better (i.e. controlable) than SRBs...

Mart

 

[GregLocock]

One of the more likely X prize rockets uses hydrogen peroxide, and, I think, rubber, as its fuel component.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[patprimmer]

NOW now Greg, I never heard of a rubber band powered rocket.

Just kidding

Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[GraviMan]

"I never heard of a rubber band powered rocket"

LOL! Not familiar with the slingshot manouver then? ;-)

Mart

 

[zeusfaber]

From Memory, HTP (High Test Peroxide) has had a long and quite unhappy history.

The Germans flew a rocket plane (the He 176 with a peroxide engine designed by Hellmuth Walter) in 1939. Rumour has it that a fair number of pilots succumbed to SHC when propellant leaked into the cockpit.

HTP turbines have also been used to power torpedoes. In 1955, the HTP engine of an experimental torpedo exploded, causing the loss of HMS Sidon with 13 hands (the boat was subsequently refloated, sank again without loss of life, and now makes a very pleasant dive in Lyme Bay).

Kursk also had HTP powered torpedoes.

Seems to make for a very effective, compact propulsion system - but probably at its best if your destination is the hereafter.

A.

 

[GraviMan]

Has to be said that in each case a pressure relief valve would have avoided the explosions. Also venting to atmosphere or "outside" would have avoided pilot suffocation. That said - nasty stuff...

Mart

 

[KR1]

Dodgy stuff by all accounts but if you want more info check out:

http://www.tecaeromex.com/ingles/sar-i/index.html

 

[crysta1c1ear]

I just took the enthalpy of hydrogen peroxide at
-136310 kJ/kmol and steam at -241820 and subtracted them to get 105510.
I worked out the molar mass of H2O2 to be 26.

Dividing one by the other gives me 4 MJ per kilogram.
Assuming the density of hyrogen peroxide to about the same as that of water, ('cos I haven't the faintest idea!) I got a litre per second to be a kilogram per second, ie 4 MJ per second, or about 5441 horsepower being released from the fuel.
Taking 70% gives my guestimate as 3808 horsepower (in the fuel).

If they are claiming 1500 HP then its a thought out plausible hoax if its not for real. They did say using 25% of the available power ... 25% of 1500 HP is 375 HP. Who is to say the thing wouldn't have come apart at 100% power? I'm not sure its right to say something has more power than you've really ever tested it at.

You have to admire somebody that can stop at 25% of the available power, whereas most idiots go for maximums all the time. In the days when people were overclocking their computers, I had to admire the guy that went from 3*66.7=200 on his 200MHz Pentium down to 2.5*75=187.5.
Everybody else seemed to be chasing raw numbers and frying their processors, and he figured the bottleneck on his PC was the bus, and slowed his procesor down slightly to get his PC to run faster.