30" Swage/Transition Nozzle & Nozzle Reinforcement?

[bayardwv]

Several questions below,
Has anyone ever designed or fabricated a 30" Swage/Transition Nozzle?
I've been directed to determine the minimum Vessel ID needed to attached a 30" 600# flange using a Swage/Transition Nozzle.
I can narrow that down to 38" ID min., because that's needed to meet other design requirements.
The swage will be attached to a 30" 600# ASME B16.47 Flange and the swaged end to a minimum 38" ID shell.
Without knowing if there are standard dimensions for this size we estimated the required swage dimensions at 40" x 20".
The vessel design conditions are 1100 PSIG at 200°F, along with Half Vac external pressure, nozzles loads, wind & seismic requirements, etc.
I'm not sure how to calculate reinforcement, or nozzle loads for a swagged opening, using PV Elite. I considered calculating the nozzle using the larger 40" opening, which of course won't work on a 38" ID vessel.
Any suggestions?

 

[MJCronin]

Your question really is about options available to a pressure vessel designer. Does he select a standard reducer, or fabricate his own cone type nozzle ? This choice will depend on the PV Engineer's design skills as well as the capabilities of his shop

It sounds like your vessel/process design is not yet done .... Is that true ????

You may be able to use a 30 x 36" Schedule 80 piping reducer with your Class 600 WN flange on the end ....

https://www.pipefittingsdirect.com/36-X-30-inch-carbon-steel-concentric-reducers

(As is typical of third-world postings, you have not bothered to give us your required materials yet...)

What did your vessel fabricator say when you contacted them ?...... Or. wait, wait .. Perhaps you are the vessel fabricator and this is your first swaged nozzle ?????

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[SnTMan]

Any suggestions?

Suggest you hint at Code of construction, if any.

Regards,

Mike

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[chicopee]

Is this swage nozzle to be welded? Personally I have never seen such nozzle on high pressure vessels when I inspected utility power plants in the North East. I have seen bifurcated pipes but never swage nozzles.

 

[bayardwv]

Vessel Material is Carbon Steel, the Design Code is ASME Section VIII, Div.1, and yes the Swage is to be welded.

I was throwing this out there to see if anyone has ever come across a Swage Nozzle of this size.

We can not use a 30 x 36 conc. reducer due to process flow requirements.
The Customer suggested using a Swage fitting vs. a 30" Circular opening, so per their request I'm investigating this alternative nozzle design.
I'm aware of what a Swage Nozzle is and where they're used, but I've never seen one this large, I've never had to calculate the thickness of one, nor performed reinforcement calculations, and was asking if anyone had managed to find a way to so using PV Elite software.

There is a LOT of background information not provided because I'm asking general questions, have you ever used or seen a 30" or similar size Swage Nozzle, and has anyone ever calculated a Pressure Vessel with Swage Nozzle using PV Elite software?

MJCronin,
Unfortunately I too have a lot of questions related to this vessel design, but I was specifically assigned the task of figuring out if we could use a 30" Swage Nozzle in place of a the typically 30" ID nozzle connection.
Your reply stated, (As is typical of third-world postings, you have not bothered to give us your required materials yet...)
What leads you to believe this is a third-world posting? I'm surprised to see anyone make such general statement these days.
I wasn't asking anyone to perform a calculation for me, therefore didn't see the need to provide in depth data. BTW, USA post.

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[SnTMan]

bayardwv, I will attempt some generalized answers. Much may be left unsaid.

a) I'd think the swage itself could be designed per Apx 13 for the obround. I'd check the circular end per UG-27, but I'd expect the obround to govern.

b) Opening reinforcement would be calculated per UG-37 and related, paying close attention to opening size limitations. There may be no truly applicable rules. U-2(g) may be needed. Opening reinforcement may govern swage thickness over a) above.

c) Related, I'd doubt PVElite has the capability to perform the calculations even if Code rules can be applied.

d) I'd confirm the swage can be procured before proceeding too far down this road. Good luck with that

Regards,

Mike

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[GD2]

Bayardwv,
I am a bit confused here. Are you trying to calculate the vessel ID or the opening size in a prefabricated vessel? If you want to determine the opening size, what the vessel ID and where you need the opening - in the cylindrical, conical, spherical shell or head?

GDD
Canada

 

[bayardwv]

SnTMan, Thank you for responding with suggestions of where to look in Code Book. The requester finally comprehended that spending my time performing calc's for a part that may not even be available at a reasonable price was not the best use of anyone's time.

GD2,
Yes, I was given a task to calculate the minimum vessel ID that could be used with a 30" Swage Nozzle, without knowing if this was even available, or all of the necessary sizing data. As I mentioned above I finally got them to agree that spending time on a hypothetical situation didn't make sense at this stage of our project.