4 speed wiring configuration 2

[Mjgjovik]

I have an old master electric company motor I'm looking for information on wiring configuration for the different speeds. It's 480 volt 4 speeds I believe it has 14 leads plus 2 extra wires I believe those are a thermal device. Leads are labeled 1 threw 7 and 11 threw 17. I have attached the name plate of the motor. Any help would be great!

 

[itsmoked]

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[edison123]

Would be interesting to know how they achieved same 10 HP from 1750 RPM all the way down to 575 RPM.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[waross]

I am guessing an oversized frame and two, two speed windings.
I suspect that the HP is limited by the winding ampacity and not by the frame capability.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[zlatkodo]

Mjgjovik
Probably, there are two Dahlander windings.
Need some additional info.
Contact us for more details.

ACW

 

[edison123]

I confirmed with EASA that it is indeed double Dahlander winding. Master was apparently early avatar of Reliance Electric.

I suggest you take the motor to a good repair shop to test and tag the winding leads and to make connections schematic for the 4 speeds.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[waross]

I once spent an afternoon identifying the unmarked leads of a Dahlander motor.
Tools, a multi-meter, a truck battery and a compass.
I took resistance and continuity readings, as well as voltage drop readings with the battery across connected windings.
I pulled the rotor and checked the physical location of the windings with the compass.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[itsmoked]

I once spent an afternoon identifying the unmarked leads of a Dahlander motor

And this is a double Dahlander!

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[zlatkodo]

It is very likely the data from the nameplate are sufficient to reconstruct the external wiring for each speed separately, if the winding is made in accordance with this data, which is not always the case (intentionally or unintentionally).

Internal connections and external wiring

 

[edison123]

Each Dahlander winding will have normally six leads out. Measure the DC resistance of all six leads with micro ohmmeter. 3 leads will read 50% higher resistance (e.g. 15 mohms) than the other 3 leads (e.g. 10 mohms). The ones with higher resistance are for high speed and the other 3 with lower resistance are for low speed. How they are connected is shown below. Delta is low speed and Double Wye is high speed. The rotation direction should be checked after reassembly and before coupling to load to ensure same rotation direction at both speeds. For each Dahlander in a double Dahlander.

In double Dahlander winding, it it most likely one delta corner in each winding is opened to prevent circulating currents and hence the 14 leads the OP has posted. And it complicates the connections since the open corner has to be reconnected for that Dahlander while the keeping the corner of the other Dahlander winding open. Bummer.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[dArsonval]

Here's what I have for a Constant Horsepower 4 speed motor. (Horsepower is the same at all speeds as denoted by the OP's nameplate photo.)
The path between T1 and T11 is permanent... and likely a internal connection... but not certain.

John

 

[edison123]

You said it better, John.

What does L2 to C mean?

There is always focus on how a wye/delta starter is harmful for the shaft, motor etc. Wonder if anyone did 'transition stress' studies for this multispeed monster.

An acknowledgement from OP for all the excellent free advice here would be nice.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[dArsonval]

Edison, I'm not certain what the meaning of the "C" in the L2 column indicates.
It's from Westinghouse multi-speed drum controller information and may pertain to something about the switch.

The diagram I have for the constant torque connection shows the "C" in the L1 column.

The supplied schematic at least gives the OP enough to go on in making experimental connections
to get the beast-of-a-machine running.

John

 

[Sparweb]

The controller for that motor needs a "4-on-the-floor" lever:

 

[edison123]

Thanks John. Drum controllers? Long time, no see.

Also, wondering why would they start with high speeds and then go down to low speeds. Going from low to high speed makes more sense.

I have asked EASA about L2 to C. Will come back with their response.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[dArsonval]

The earlier posted diagram is from information published in 1956.

Here is the same information published decades later in 1999.
(I always go to my oldest sources first, and work up from there ; )

Note that highest numbered labeled leads are the high speed.

Spar, your four-on-the-floor reminds me of how I may have to reach for the fifth under the seat after this post.

Getting back to work,

John ; )

 

[waross]

It's been a long time, and I have misplaced some of my books during my joirneys, so someone else may confirm this:
I remember variable torque constant torque and constant HP.
I seem to remember that, depending on the type of motor, while the connections are the same, the speeds may not be the same.
Depending on how the winding polarities are arranged internally, the consequent poles (low speed) may be formed with the windings either in series or in parallel.
With that in mind, the drum switch connections may be slowest to fastest.

A related question:
Given that there are at least two possible consequent pole connections, does Dahlander refer to any consequent pole connection or to only one particular connection?

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[crshears]

What an educational and instructive thread!

I've never had anything to do with a Dahlander motor, and thus didn't previously follow threads mentioning them due to lack of interest, but I've learned a lot from this one.

So [ based on the pic of the nameplate ] the set-up allows for the motor to operate as an induction motor having either two, three, four or six sets of poles, depending on connection; neat! And reversible to boot!

Even if the OP did do a post and ghost, I sincerely thank you.

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[zlatkodo]

All of the above applies if there are two Dahlander windings 12/6 and 8/4 poles), which is very likely given that the motor is old.
But it should be noticed that another variant is possible, i.e. two PAM windings (12/8 and 6/4 poles).