54" Mystery Flange 1

[MarlonR]

Greetings all,

This is my first post here; I've just found this websight while looking for info WRT my problem.

I am working at a Plant in Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada. It was commissioned c. 1968.

I am attempting to locate a replacement gasket for a 54" flanged connection which is presently leaking. Unfortunately in a plant of this age, there are many gaps in the records, and I can find no indication of what this flange may be.

It is installed on a 54" NPS header.
It has an OD of 65½ inches.
It has 36 bolt holes.
It appears to be a full faced flange.

It matches neither ASME B16.47 Series A nor B.

Lately I've come to wonder if it may be a European or other Flange (DIN etc,) but I don't have any reference material for these.

Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks

Marlon

 

[abeltio]

More data are needed...
Service
Flange Thickness
Diameter and length of bolts
If in water service... have you looked into the AWWA standards (American Water Works Association)?
HTH
Saludos.
a.

 

[StressGuy]

It would also be good to know if this flange is just in a pipe run, or if it is on a piece of equipment. While 1968 is well before my time, I've heard plenty of horror stories from my seniors of flanges in that size range being based on no existing pattern and the vessel fabricator supplying both mating flanges to make sure they would connect.

You may find that the only way to match the gasket will be to take the old one out of service, measure it, and get a gasket vendor to make a replacement.

In fact, I recently went through a very similar situation for a client here in Houston. A 54" flange on top of a furnace of a completely non-standard design. We've spoken in advance to Flexitallic here in Houston about the replacement. We've basically picked the construction based on the service and they are going to be able to get a two day turnaround once the dimensions are taken on the existing gasket.

So, if your line is going to be out of service for a scheduled shutdown, something like this may be your best bet.

I'd also recommend going ahead and having a least one spare made up for this joint, so you will have it the next time the line comes out of service. Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[MarlonR]

Hello again and thanks for the replies.

I've just been out in the plant trying to gather some additional info.


Recap:
It is installed on a 54" NPS header.
It has an OD of 65½ inches.
It has 36 bolts.
It is a full faced flange.

The connection is between a 54" header and a 54"x48"x54" (Venturi) Motor Operated Valve.

The bolts (well studs actually) are 1 3/8", approx 10 5/8" in length.

The flange has a thickness of 3¾" on the pipe side of the union.
The flange on the valve body itself is 2 3/8" thick.
The gasket material is approx 1/8" thick.

I think the pipe side flange is forged and the valve side body cast.

The service of this line is 50# steam.
Design Pressure = 75 psig
Design Temp = 650°F

I haven't looked into the AWWA standard yet, but I'm about to see if I can find anything there.

Does anybody else have any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks Again,

Marlon

 

[abeltio]

Get the nameplate data from the venturi-valve, call the manufacturer...they should be able to identify the flange for you...
HTH
Saludos.
a.

 

[StressGuy]

With those conditions, I hope it's not an AWWA flange - Weee doggie!

I would agree that the valve manufacturer is going to be your best bet. Depending on how old this assembly is, you may find that the valve, flanges, and gaskets were all designed and supplied by the valve maker.

Good luck. Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[parsec]

B16.47 did not come about until after 1980. It did incorporate dimensions form some of the older codes, such as MSS-SP-44 and API 605. The reason was that back in the time when your plant was commisioned, there was little standardization in flanges of that size. It is a definite possibility that the flange was manufactured specifically to mate with the valves. The unfortunate part is that the valves may also not have been manufactured to a standard but may have been designed specifically for this application. (See for example, ASME Section VIII, Division 1, 1968, Appendix II). This may be likley due to the size and number of studs. It is possible that the valve is designed to MSS-SP-42 (1953) which may have listed larger sizes and provided flange dimensions. I do not have a copy of that standard, so I can not tell you for sure. You may want to check this out or try to find the valve manufacturer, if they are still in business.

 

[reichertc]

I just ran through a program our company has, and was unable to match your flange dimensions with anything in the database. I checked against API 605, MSS SP-44, and Taylor Forge Large Diameter Flanges. Closest I could find was an MSS SP-44 150# flange. Seems like your flange has pretty small bolts, and fairly few of them. It sounds custom designed to me.

I take it you couldn't get your hands on the original isometric drawing for this piping. I would suggest that you contact the engineering department at Flexitallic. (These guys are at

http://www.flexitallic.com

) They are extremely helpful in this kind of a situation. If you are working where I think you are, you will probably be asked to "upgrade" to a spiral wound gasket. Flexitallic can custom build these to the existing flange dimensions.

It will cost $$$$ to do that.

Much cheaper than that would be an aramid-fiber sheet, cut to existing dimensions. I think you even have a guy in town who can do sizes as large as you are looking for, but I can't remember if he is the distributor for Flexitallic or Garlock.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[MarlonR]

Thanks for all the input and help everyone. I am still struggling with this one, and it may in the end involve a custom job...

By the way, where are you writing from reichertc?

Regards,

Marlon

 

[reichertc]

Gone from the system for a while there MarlonR, but now I am back. I'm currently working in Calgary (for the big project in Fort Mac), but have spent some time on both the Syncrude and Suncor sites.

Hope you found a gasket!