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a good problem to have

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OliverJDragon

Structural
Mar 29, 2010
41
I have two good job prospects. No written offer (no one seems to want to do that till I tell them theirs is the job I want), but I shouldn't assume one will fall through and relieve me of the obligation of making a decision.

This is the kind of thing that only I can decide for myself, but thinking "out loud" may help.

Background: I live in a really great city, known for its vibrant arts scene. But before I moved here, I spent most of my life in a different region, and this great city has never felt like home. As a result, I haven't formed the kind of social ties I should have. I've wanted to go "home" (home being defined regionally, not a particular town) for a long time. Meanwhile, I've become increasingly frustrated with my job, which makes for one less reason to stay.

So I started looking for other jobs in other places. Unfortunately, the kind of job that seems best for me at the moment isn't located in the kind of place I want to live. So the "go home" motivation has completely backfired. But I'm too far down the path of leaving to change my mind and stay.

So...here I am.

Job #1 is in an area known for agriculture, industry, the Great Outdoors, and a couple of minor branches of the state college. Not exactly a cultural mecca, and nothing any better within commuting distance. There is a major city that is pretty decent, but definitely not "home", within visiting distance (hour and a half). They recruited me, I said I didn't want to live there, they insisted, I went for an interview, here we are.

Job #2 is in the region I call home, but in the middle of nowhere. But at least it's home-flavored nowhere, with a small liberal arts college town within commuting distance, and I like living in small liberal arts college towns. Strong likelihood of promotion to a less nowhereish location in a couple of years, which would still be an hour and a half from a city, but the cities in question are the cities I was aiming for from the start. If not for the looming presence of Job #1, I'd be very happy with it.

Job #1, as a job, is far superior. It's an executive-level job, managing managers, direct report to the CEO. Job #2 is a bottom-level manager, the kind of manager that Job #1 would manage, and even the next level up is a position that does double-duty as bottom-level manager of the facility at the HQ location and as manager of the holder of Job #2. And even that next level up is still a level down from direct reporting to the CEO.

So...it's coming down to location vs. job level.

Job #1 is lots better, location #2 is somewhat better. Further in the "warm fuzzies" department, my first professional mentor would be in my chain of command at Job #2, and I know and like a lot of people at that company. On the other hand, my predecessor at Job #1, also someone I know and trust, will be sticking around in a reduced role for the next year to train and help me, which is a huge stress-reducer.

But here's another twist. Job #2 can't match the salary of Job #1, but they can get close enough that if location #2 were ideal, it would be worth it. Which means that what Job #1 has to offer comes down, in essence, to more authority. Well, that and managing managers is easier than managing at ground level. A lot easier. But I think, consulting my inner shrink, that what I'm really being tempted by is the authority rather than the convenience of not having to deal with floor-level disciplinary issues.

Why is authority in itself enough to tempt me to go live someplace that I find, quite frankly, depressing? And if I couldn't bring myself to settle in here, in this great city, what makes me think I could do it in location #1? (Part of an answer to that last question is that I didn't come here intending to stay; I came thinking it was temporary and just never got around to leaving, and that probably has a lot to do with why I never settled in.)

People in my industry don't seem to move around a whole lot, so it doesn't feel right to approach this with a "try the job and see how it goes" mentality. I want to be able to go in assuming that I'm playing for keeps, even if in reality something else may come up that changes that plan.

Okay, someone wave their magic wand and tell me what I want to hear.

OJD
 
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If you want to be a manager, then by observation the step from lower management to middle management is the hardest (supervisor or whatever being a terminal career move for many). So that's another plus for Job #1, IF you are a power crazed loon/CEO wannabe/ambitious.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
Job #1 sounds more desirable to me.

You may like Job #2 because the surrounding extracurricular activities are more up your alley, but remember where the majority of your time will be spent. To me, being satisfied with what you do on a daily basis is the most important consideration. It is hard to fully understand the locale issues without more specifics.

You hinted that you haven't built a strong social network in your current city and you seem to chalk it up to regional differences. Perhaps, you haven't been as proactive as you could be. In any big city, there are going a large amount of people out there to whom you can relate. It is just a matter finding them. I'm sure many of those on here who have moved around a lot can elaborate on ways they have successfully made friends in a new environment.


A few further questions:

- Are you married with a family?
- Do you ultimately plan on moving home one day (i.e. near your hometown, not just in your "home region")?
- How many years experience do you have?


 
"Home" would be a city, pretty much any city, in my "home region". I have lots of friends and built-in activity in any of those cities. But I just don't see that happening in this phase of my career. It's not where the jobs are.

In terms of family, it's just me, which is good for flexibility but bad for social isolation.

Socially, I didn't connect much here because I didn't want to. It wasn't home, and I kept thinking I'd be leaving in a couple of years. (But the years added up, and I paid the price living in transient mode for so long.) I got very involved in local activities, but not much in the way of true personal connections. I don't know that I'd be able to shake that off in location #1, and I wouldn't even have the local activities as a crutch. And, for that matter, even location #2 is, in all likelihood, temporary. My potential boss #2 is going to retire soon, and they're all assuming I'd end up with his position at location #2A unless I screw something up badly.

I have fewer years of professional experience (11) than Job #1 would ordinarily warrant, and far fewer years of management experience (0) than Job #1 would warrant. Job #1 is a gift, from a professional standpoint. They had lots of other applicants with management experience but lacking the specific technical experience that I have, and they decided that I seem better able to pick up the management side than those other guys would be at picking up the industry specifics. Job #2 is the kind of job you'd think I would get at my current stage of professional life. But Job #1 isn't entirely a fluke; there's Job #3, off further on the horizon because they haven't completely made up their minds that they're going to create the position (after sounding like it was a done deal), that is similar to Job #1. Apparently sheer force of personality makes up for a lot.

I am kind of power-crazed. Not in that I like being able to force people to bend to my will, but in that I like things to go my way. It's more fun if I can get people to *want* to do things my way, which I've had some success at. I've been getting my way at a level far above what my official position would warrant for years, mostly relying on "do-ocracy" principles.

Both of those positions involve being able to fix things. #2 is facility level, #1 is corporate level, multiple facilities.

OJD
 
One more point here, I can assume as you will pick up the managment skills in Job # 1 you will have more chances of getting financial benefits than job # 2 (in long run).

I think there are 2 devils inside us......."Money" devil who just want money & "LifeStyle" devil who just wants only good Lifestyle.

So which devil inside you is stronger than other.

If it was for me, My "Money" devil likes the job # 1 & has "SomeHow" made my other Devil to agree to location.
 
Think past both jobs. Job #1 will look far better when you want to move on, either internally or externally. Job #2 is safer, but offers less career advancement. From a pure resume standpoint, Job #1 offers more. But....

Reporting to the CEO has its good points and bad points. If you get along well with the CEO, then it will probably be OK. Also, you'll have those other managers who will resent you for taking the job they wanted. It will take a while to earn their respect, so don't expect roses to be thrown in your path until then.

Again Job #2 is safer from a career standpoint, but doesn't allow you to "leapfrog" as Job #1 appears to do. Your choice...do you want complacency or challenge?
 
The one thing that's always bothered me about your job 1 description is what i call teh Coach factor. If you've ever noticed, when a team isn't doing what it's supposed to it's not the bottom level manager it's the top dog, the coach, the upper level manager.

If you're comfortable in this position with the experience you have go for it. But if you worry about being able to motivate and increase production (or whatever needs to be increased) and having your worth tied to lower level managers that are well...pricks, I'd go for Job 2. Of course, this assumes that is what the job repsonsibilities are for that position. Perhaps they aren't.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Qshake
[pipe]
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 
Valid concern, QShake, but I think I'm okay in that department. My putative job #1 predecessor is retiring, not being ousted, and I don't think they're expecting me to perform too many miracles that he couldn't. I think.

If I take job #1 I'm leapfrogging over levels of management that I should maybe have gone through at one company or another, but the people below at this company are not my competition for this job. They've been interviewing from outside all along. So I should be okay there as well.

Hypothetical job #3, that does involve stuffing me in over someone's head.

Reading something else on this site reminded me to check out the noncompetes the various firms might require me to sign. There could be a hidden dealbreaker there. I hope not; job #1 predecessor did leave the company and came back, so it can't have been too restrictive, but I need to check. Unfortunately almost everyone I need to talk to at job #2 is on vacation this week, and job #1 is getting antsy.

@Ron: I prefer challenge over complacency. On the other hand, #2 has challenges too, just of a somewhat different sort.

OJD
 
Okay, so I'd pretty much gotten to where it was all over but the whining, and I suppose I'm still there...

Job #2...aforementioned mentor is giving me the hard sell. Which is kind of weird, because he hasn't actually given me an offer yet, because although he is utterly convinced that my lack of supervisory experience is not an issue, there are Others (I am guessing those who I'd be working with most closely at Location #2, since all the HQ types at Location #2A love me) who have their doubts.

Which on the one hand is one more reason to go to Job #1. At Job #1 I have a typical case of impostor syndrome ("what if they find out I'm not quite the God's Gift that they think I am?") but I'm used to that; it's another thing to go someplace where they have built-in doubts about me and will be looking for cracks in the armo(u)r.

But with the increased hard sell coming from Mr. Mentor, it's that much harder to tell him no, I'm going to go to these other people (I've gotten as far as saying I'm "leaning" toward #1 because of the greater level of authority). Additional issue: Company #2 does have a better reputation. Company #1 doesn't have a *bad* reputation, overall, but Company #2 probably has the best reputation in the business.

Dammit, I was on the verge of committing to something. And since I really don't think #2 is going to win me over, I have no excuse to keep dithering. And yet I do. (I think I expected #2 to go away more quietly and wasn't really prepared for the hard sell.)

I should point out that I am much better at making decisions *in* the job than *about* the job...

Further justification to myself of the decision I've already made but won't admit to--if #2 had gotten to me early enough, I would never have been in contact with #1. But at that time they were busy chasing an ex-employee, someone much more old-school, but then when they couldn't get him they looked at me. So there's a strong element of wanting old-school, which I am obviously not.

On the other hand, #1 may be more old-school than the image they chose to present to me. It's one thing to sit in a conference room and say you're looking for change. It's another thing to change.

Did I mention it's all over but the whining? But I have infinite stores of whining. I need someone to kick me in the ass. Unfortunately I don't think any of you have that kind of influence over me and no one I know in person is willing to kick my ass.

OJD
 
OJD...now you're just being a b!tch. You've already decided...now man-up and admit it! Don't look back, don't burn any bridges.
 
"Further justification to myself of the decision I've already made but won't admit to"
I agree with Ron, MTFU and stop the over-analyzing, doubt-inducing, second-guesses.

Oh, and take a warm coat. You'll need it in a few months. [smile]
 
Well, it's done. Job #1 sent an offer, I signed it, I guess it's official. And it turns out Job #2 wasn't going to work out, so I don't even have to worry about that particular set of "what-if".

Thanks for the swift kick in the ass, even if I didn't really react to it very swiftly...

OJD
 
I was going to say go with Job#1 no doubt.

But you already made your mind and best of lucks with the the new endeavour.
 
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