A huge battery has replaced Hawaii’s last coal plant 3

[cmoreride]

Plus Power’s Kapolei battery is officially online. The pioneering project is a leading example of how to shift crucial grid functions from fossil-fueled plants to clean energy.

https://www.canarymedia.com/article...-battery-has-replaced-hawaiis-last-coal-plant

 

[TugboatEng]

A battery can't replace a power plant... The author of the story is either ignorant or lying.

 

[dik]

It's the source of the power that is critical. The author may not have 'asked the right questions' or perhaps wasn't given the entire story.

"Hawaii shut down its last coal plant on September 1, 2022, eliminating 180 megawatts of fossil-fueled baseload power from the grid on Oahu — a crucial step in the state’s first-in-the-nation commitment to cease burning fossil fuels for electricity by 2045.

But the move posed a question that’s becoming increasingly urgent as clean energy surges across the United States: How do you maintain a reliable grid while switching from familiar fossil plants to a portfolio of small and large renewables that run off the vagaries of the weather?"

It may be the first step in replacing the fossil fuel with renewables and having someplace to store the energy.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Very little of Hawaii's energy comes from renewables. It's most likely that they simply shifted the burden to their oil burning plants. It's a lot easier to transport and store oil vs coal.

 

[Tmoose]

"With 565 megawatt-hours of storage, the battery can’t directly replace the coal plant’s energy production, ...."

"The "battery" plant’s 185 megawatts of instantaneous discharge capacity match what the old coal plant could inject into the grid,...." .
For about 565/185= 3 hours ?
Or probably less than 3 hours because "The Kapolei batteries are programmed to hold some energy in reserve " because Hawaiian Electric needs a power source to restart after a disaster, "a cyclone or earthquake,"
I'm guessing the "instantaneous discharge capacity" is not a reasonable 1 or 2 hour rate.

Hawaii Electricity Profile 2022
Net generation (megawatt hours, 9,337,434
Electric utilities 5,249,301

https://www.hawaiianelectric.com/about-us/power-facts

It is not clear to me if the Hawaiian islands are connected electrically or if only Oahu's grid is serviced by the new Kapolei Energy Storage.
"Hawaii shut down its last coal plant on September 1, 2022, eliminating 180 megawatts of fossil-fueled baseload power from the grid on Oahu —

 

[LittleInch]

Tug the link above

https://www.hawaiianelectric.com/about-us/power-facts

shows

Oahu is about 28%, (300K consumers)
Hawaii Island is 48% (90K consumers)
Maui county 35% (74K consumers)

There are lots of Solar and battery systems "In development"

So the percentage will get higher as time goes on.




Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SnTMan]

3 hours huh?

"I don't care who's right or wrong
I don't try to understand
Let the devil take tomorrow
'Cause tonight I need a friend"

LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[GregLocock]

They'll burn even more diesel. 3 hours storage is not a replacement for baseload. You are being manipulated.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[LionelHutz]

The headline/summary is complete nonsense. Batteries don't replace generation. However, the article body better explains how the battery stores excess generation for use during peak demand and how it helps stabilize the grid during times of high RE generation. Two main reasons why grid battery banks are being installed alongside RE projects.

 

[TugboatEng]

That idea only makes sense if there is ever an excess of renewable energy available. I don't think that situation is possible if HI's grid is only 10-15% RE. Stabilizing the grid isn't much of a benefit. I see that a lot of the power is from distillate fuels which likely means combined cycle power plants. These are very responsive and have fast startup times. They're often used for peaking plants here in CA. And then there is the fact that large inverter based sources may destabilize the grid due to lack of inertia. I see there is talk of motorizing decommissioned steam turbine generator sets to give inertia to the grid.

 

[LittleInch]

If you look at the links and read the story, the renewables element is now >35% and had been as high as >75%. The battery is also there before other RE systems have come on line which are planned / in progress. The system is set up to act as an inertia and provide some rigidity to the grid as well as storing and then delivering power to cope with sudden short term dips in RE generation whilst allowing storage of excess power.

Hawaii seems to have a lot more Solar than wind so will need a fair amount of battery power to reduce oil driven generation at night. but with enven Dec giving 200 hours of sunlight and July only 50% more at 300, you can see why.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LionelHutz]

That idea only makes sense if there is ever an excess of renewable energy available.

They have said RE generation is greater than demand. Do you have evidence to prove they are lying or are you just being purposely argumentative?

 

[JoshPlumSE]

That idea only makes sense if there is ever an excess of renewable energy available.

Conceptionally, I see your point. And, it's valid. I just don't think it's quite that simple. The

However, there are considerations as well. Let's say that you need 3 natural gas plants running at near fully capacity during the day because they each carry 30% of the maximum load. With 10 to 15% carried by solar. Then at night, you need only about 30% of the power you needed during the day. Let's say the battery power captures the excess power available during the day, then doles it out whenever the grid needs it. The electric utilities might be able to significantly reduce the amount of power produced from your fossil fuel plants at night (or at various times in the early evening when power need is ramping down or ramping up). They may be able to use the gas turbines in a way that is more efficient (for CO2 emissions) rather than running them at maximum power production.

Note: I'm not saying that battery power is some sort of panacea for green energy. It's not. But, it's a tool that can be used to be incrementally more "green" than Hawaii would have been otherwise.

Now, what I really wonder about is cost vs reduction in CO2 emissions. I'm not sure battery power would really hold up if we were evaluating it in that sense.

 

[dik]

Because of the 'interrupted nature' of wind and solar, batteries are an essential part of the program.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Lionel, I think it's reasonable to be skeptical. Has their been any truthful reporting about green projects?It appears that some 16% of Hawaii's electricity comes from renewable sources. I just don't see the situation where 16% could become excess and need to be stored. I think their definition of excess relies on some creative accounting. I can't find Oahu data specifically so I have to fall back on statewide data.

 

[LionelHutz]

So, no proof = purposely argumentative. Exactly what I expected.

 

[TugboatEng]

Sorry, I forgot to include the graphic. This isn't proof? Is there ever a time where 16% becomes excessive?

 

[LionelHutz]

Yes, there is when it's working in combination with the other generation sources which are still online. The continuous running plants plus daytime RE generation surpass demand. Curtailing or shutting down the high efficiency baseload plants would cause the use of other lower efficiency peak filling generation and difficulty in bringing the baseload plant back up quickly to meet an increasing demand. It would be complete stupidity to attempt, hence causing the need to either not use the renewable energy or store the excess caused by the renewable energy.

As for your latest post.

#1. You just went from "only 10-15% RE" to 16% so your claims keep moving.

#2. You apparently suck at math. The RE in that data adds up to 22.8%. 2021 data is now 2 years old and Hawaii has brought more RE online since then. This link says it was up to about 29% in 2022 and it will have gone up yet again last year. Coal is still listed, and they have stopped using it.

#3. Since you don't seem to grasp this point either. A really big battery can also offset the time of use for power from "dirty" generation which can produce enough average power but is not enough for the dinner time peak demand. The battery doesn't discriminate against the "battery charging electrons" based on how they were generated. Shifting the generation from a larger, more efficient continually operating plant instead of firing up a low efficiency peak filling plant also contributes to being green. A combination of base load generation + daytime RE shifted to the evening instead of firing up peak filling plants is the way the RE + battery systems being installed ALL get operated.

So, yes it appears you're still just being purposely argumentative.

 

[TugboatEng]

So I made a seat of the pants guess and missed it by one % point?

Is biomass considered renewable? It certainly has a higher carbon footprint vs oil (longer hydrocarbon chains).

Peaking plants are usually combined cycle so they are more efficient than the base load plants.

 

[LionelHutz]

Peaking plants are usually combined cycle so they are more efficient than the base load plants.

If they were more efficient they'd run them as the base load.