Acceptable material for ladder rungs 2

[waskillywabbit]

Please help. I need to find some specific documented information relative to materials that are acceptable to use for ladder rungs, such as ladders used on atmospherice storage tanks, pressure vessels and in general industrial applications. I tried searching OSHA's website to no avail. I have been told that rebar is unacceptable to be used as a ladder rung according to OSHA standards but have seen no such documentation and have seen rebar called out as the ladder rung material on numerous drawings and applications.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[tmdixon]

Personally, I have never used anything but 3/4" dia. round bar for ladder rungs. I generally use a structural grade material when I can (SA-36) or a stainless steel if used internally in a vessel where corrosion is a factor.

 

[waskillywabbit]

Yes, I have found documentation stating that the diameter of the rungs be 3/4" diameter, but nothing about specifics for rung material. I have found generalities stating that all material must conform to A-36 and that rebar is unacceptable, but nothing in an ANSI or OSHA standard that specifically says you cannot use rebar.



Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[tmdixon]

I just had a look through Safety in Design and other than the minimum 3/4" dia, there is nothing regarding materials - although there is a comment that "rungs and cleats shall be free of splinters, sharp edges, burrs or projections which may be a hazard"

 

[JStephen]

As I understand the situation:

OSHA regs are based on ANSI requirements, specifically, the 1958 versions. ANSI requirements have been updated. OSHA has a proposed rule that incorporates the updates. This proposed rule includes the non-skid requirement, also increases allowable distance between landings, etc. But, this proposed rule has never become effective for some reason. So currently, smooth round bars are okay. Unless it's in the Construction industry.

The problem is that any truly non-skid rung is also unpaintable. We've seen rebar used as a compromise. I've seen knurled stainless steel bars. McNichols and Klemp sell two or three different styles of non-skid rungs. You can also put non-skid coating or non-skid tape on smooth rungs. Right now, there are a lot of applications that don't yet have a good solution.

 

[waskillywabbit]

Okay, so it sounds like rebar is not the best solution but could still be used? It is #6 rebar, which is 3/4" diameter.



Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[jte]

waskally-

The only reference I can throw in your direction is ANSI A14.3, American National Standard for Ladders - Fixed - Safety Requirements. I have a copy of the 1992 edition which is at least one edition out of date. Looks like the latest edition is dated November 2002. In my 1992 edition, paragraph 4.3.1.2 states: Materials conforming to ASTM A36-81a or the equivalent shall be used. Higher strength steels may be used, subject to the requirements of AISC S335-1989.

So it looks as though there is at least one ANSI reference which calls out A36 or equivalent. You can get the latest edition from

http://www.americanladderinstitute.org/UpdatedStandardsOrderForm.pdf

for $80.

jt

 

[JStephen]

I have the latest edition at work, and can quote the applicable part when I get back there. The catch is that it doesn't call out a specific style of non-skid, or specify what is or isn't non-skid. The current OSHA specs just give a minimum rung size.

On the OSHA website,

http://www.osha.gov,

search for ladders under the "interpretations" section. You'll find several posts that discuss how adherence to the proposed standard is generally considered adequate, even if construction doesn't meet current OSHA rules.

In the OSHA rules, if you'll look under the "Construction" safety rules, they DO have the non-skid requirement there. But I think it is rather vague as well.

I mentioned the stainless knurled bars- one problem there is that the stainless material is slicker in the first place, compared to typical painted CS- so it's not the improvement you might expect. Knurled & galvanized might work okay if the knurling pattern was large enough.

On a typical vertical ladder, both the rungs and the stringers will be used as handholds, so the sharp non-skid surfaces are harder on your hands as well.

 

[waskillywabbit]

Thanks for the thoughts thus far folks. I know for a fact that there are numerous players in industry that use #6 rebar for their ladder rungs currently. If rebar is "wrong" or "unacceptable", how do they get away w/ it w/ OSHA? I have read the ANSI A14.3 standard out of the PV Handbook, but don't have access to the standard. How well does rebar stack up to SA-36 as I haven't been able to find any relevant data on that as well in my search today?



Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[JoeTank]

Contrary to that posted by others, deformed rebar is suitable for ladder rungs; however, the weldable grades should be used. The ASTM A615 rebar grades are not of weldable quality. The weldable rebar ASTM spec number escapes me but I will come back and post it later.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[LSThill]

waskillywabbit (Mechanical)


go to

http://www.pip.org

for Ladders Platform and handrail standard: Pressure Vessel & API 620&650 TANKS

Abstract
STF05501 - Fixed Ladders and Cages Details
Paper Copy Price $165
Date: 12-99 (Complete Revision) | 02-02 (Technical Correction)

Abstract
STF05511 - Fixed Industrial Stairs
Paper Copy Price $195
Date: 04-02

Abstract
STF05520 - Pipe Railing for Walking and Working Surface Details
Paper Copy Price $195
Date: 12-98

Abstract
STF05521 - Details for Angle Railings for Walking and Working Surfaces
Paper Copy Price $265
Date: 10-03 (Complete Revision) | 06-04 (Technical Correction)

Abstract
STF05530 - Grating Details
Paper Copy Price $145
Date: 03-01

Abstract
STE05535 - Vessel Circular Platform Detail Guidelines
Paper Copy Price $50
Date: 03-05

Abstract
STF05535 - Vessel Circular Platform Details
Paper Copy Price $265
Date: 03-05 (Complete Revision)

 

[JStephen]

Okay, current ANSI A14.3 doesn't mention non-skid rungs at all. And in fact, it does state: "For ladders subject to normal atmospheric exposures, 3/4"-diameter solid bar, or the equivalent in strength for square, rectangular, or other solid or hollow shapes is required." (5.1.3.2a). While this is discussing rung sizes, it certainly implies that solid round bars, and not some specially formed tread, is to be used. It elsewhere mentions that A36 steel or better is to be used.

The OSHA CONSTRUCTION standard (not general industry) does require non-skid, specifies:

1926.1053(a)(6)(i)
The rungs and steps of fixed metal ladders manufactured after March 15, 1991, shall be corrugated, knurled, dimpled, coated with skid-resistant material, or otherwise treated to minimize slipping.

An Interpretation of October 9, 1992 (on OSHA website) states:

"Consequently, you are correct in your interpretation that 1926.1053(a)(6)(i), which requires metal ladder rungs to be skid-resistant, is not applicable to permanently installed fixed metal ladders which meet the provisions of 1910.27, and construction workers may use such ladders during the construction process."

Rebar is normally either 40 ksi or 60 ksi yield; either is higher yield strength than A36. Some of the grades are not suitable for welding (or even bending); use the low alloy grades for that.

 

[waskillywabbit]

JStephen

You rock dude!

Thank you ALL for your information and help as this seems to be a "gray" area at best.

Have a great weekend!

Brian
Pressure Vessels and Autoclave Systems

http://www.mcabeeconstruction.com

The above comments/opinions are solely my own and not those of McAbee Construction.

 

[blake989]

A706, weldable rebar.

 

[codeeng]

PIP's are another valuable source of information concerning L&Ps. Certainly, for North America, these should comply with local regulations regarding materials, dimensions and forms.

 

[LSThill]

codeeng (Petroleum) I agree with you and see below:

STS05120 - Fabrication of Structural and Miscellaneous Steel Specification

This Process Industry Practice (Practice) provides the structural steel fabricator with a specification for fabrication of structural and miscellaneous steel. This Practice describes the requirements for all material, connections, detailing, fabrication, galvanizing, and delivery of structural and miscellaneous steel. Any conflicts or inconsistencies between this Practice, design drawings, or other contract documents shall be brought to the attention of the buyer for resolution.

STS05130 - Erection of Structural and Miscellaneous Steel Specification

This Process Industry Practice (Practice) provides the structural steel erector with a specification of steel erection requirements for the process industry. This Practice describes the requirements for the receipt, handling, erection, assembly, and field inspection of structural and miscellaneous steel.

STF05501 - Fixed Ladders and Cages

PIP Practice STF05501 provides the fabricator and erector with a standard fixed ladder and cage design to be used in process industry facilities. This Practice also provides process industry companies with design guide information to be used in specifying and locating fixed ladders and cages.
This Practice shows the design details for fabrication and installation of typical Occupational Safety and Health Administration-regulated ladders for structures, miscellaneous platforms, and vessels for regular operational access/egress. These details are intended to be issued to the fabricators supplying these ladders and to the erectors for use in installation.
Any conflicts or inconsistencies between this Practice, the design drawings, or other contract documents shall be brought to the attention of the buyer for resolution.

STF05511 - Fixed Industrial Stairs

This Practice provides the fabricator and erector with a standard fixed industrial stair design to be used in process industry facilities. It also provides process industry companies with design guide information to be used in specifying and designing fixed industrial stairs.
Design details for fabrication and installation of typical OSHA-regulated stairs for open structures and miscellaneous platforms for regular operational access/egress are included. Details comply with NFPA 101 - Life Safety Code for Industrial Occupancies. These details are intended to be issued to fabricators supplying stairs and to erectors for use in stair installation.

STF05520 - Pipe Railing for Walking and Working Surface Details

This Practice provides requirements for designers, fabricators, and installers of pipe railing. This Practice provides fabrication and installation details for standard pipe railing for walking and working surfaces and for stair railing or handrail for egress. Although the details in this Practice are intended to meet U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) requirements for process facilities, they may not meet the requirements of local or national building codes.

STF05521 - Details for Angle Railings for Walking and Working Surfaces

This Practice provides fabrication and installation details for standard angle railing for walking and working surfaces and for stair railing and handrail for egress stairs. This Practice is intended for designers, fabricators, and installers of angle railing.

STF05530 - Grating Details

This Practice provides structural steel fabricators and structural steel erectors with standard grating details for the fabrication and installation of grating in process industry facilities. This Practice describes the requirements for fabrication and installation of typical grating platforms and is intended to be issued to fabricators supplying grating and to erectors installing grating

STE05535 - Vessel Circular Platform Detail Guidelines

This Practice provides guidance for the engineers who are designing circular platforms in accordance with PIP STF05535, Vessel Circular Platform Details, and for the engineers who design the vessels to support these vessel platforms. It describes the design basis for the platforms detailed in PIP STF05535 and circumstances that should be considered before using PIP STF05535. A table showing the platform design loads for the vessel clips is provided. The table should be used to check whether a vessel requires reinforcement to receive the platform loads.

STF05535 - Vessel Circular Platform Details

This Practice provides fabricators with standard details for circular platforms for vertical vessels. This Practice describes the requirements and the design details for fabrication of circular vessel platforms including ladders and railing. PIP STE05535, Vessel Circular Platform Detail Guidelines, a guide for use by engineers who are providing the circular platforms in accordance with this Practice and for use by engineers who are designing the vessels to support these vessel platforms, is available on the PIP web site or from the PIP office. PIP STE05535 provides information to engineers about the design basis of the platforms, circumstances that should be considered before using this Practice, and a table showing the platform design loads for the vessel clips. Table 1 in PIP STE05535 should be used to check whether the vessel requires reinforcement to receive the platform loads.

 

[JStephen]

So what exactly to the PIP's have to say about ladder rungs?

 

[unclesyd]

There is a an OSHA standard 1910.27

Search Ladder rungs under the OSHA site.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.full_site_search

 

[codeeng]

PIP STF05501 calls for 3/4" dia rungs (smooth bar). Material A36.

 

[chicopee]

rebar can not be used because it is not meant to be welded