Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting? 6

[EngineerDave]

What do you think of the following situation?

1) I accepted a job a few weeks ago at a very prestigious place but it will involve a move and the money isn't as great especially and the cost of living is high.

2) Another job may become available to me. This group asked me if I would be willing to consider them instead of the offer I previously received. I know what this group is like and there are some negatives in the environment that led to the job being available, but it is also conveniently in my hometown where I live currently.

My initial thought is that I've given my word and accepted an offer at the other place. I am not inclined to back out because I believe someones word is important

HOWEVER
1) Financially I would be better off if I backed out of it
2) But if I did back out, it could give me a bad name in the community of this specialty which is pretty small.

WHAT I AM INCLINED TO DO
1) Take the job offer I accepted. Work there for a little while to get the name and experience
2) Sometime 1 or two years down the road, return to the other company for an offer. I have a feeling they will have openings again!

 

[plasgears]

Don't be afraid to move. My moves generally led to better situations in the long run.

I was going nuts in NYC and I found a life in the midwest. Now I am approaching retirement, live in a nice area of the country, and the weather and disaster factors are minimal. The financial and cost of living factors are good, too.

Several years ago Warner published a book entitled, "Finding the Best Place to Live in America," Thomas Bowman, et al. It has appeal for engineers because it is analytical and covers dozens of factors. You can chose to weigh various factors more heavily than others. Then you score several locations including your present locale. It's an eye opener. Try Amazon.

 

[BobPE]

Tough position to be in. I was in that position one time where I had one offer that I formalized and another that suddenly came to like after I thought it was dead.

I took the latter. How I dealt with it was to explain to the person that was hirihg me (not the comapny) in writing how I felt personally/professionally. I usually never get personal when it comes to business, but this is a personal issue. Although there were hard business feelings, things were positive on a personal/professional level.

I do not regret my decision. I can't say for sure how I would be right now accepting the first offer, but I am happy with my choices. If I have left my career up to my employeers, I am sure I would be piegon holed doing shop drawing reviews with my 10 year old HP48GX calculator by my side....LOL

Go with your feelings and communicate them clearly to all parties affected....

BobPE

 

[TheTick]

You are not indentured. You have every right to make the move that is best for you.

Fortunately, the company you might spurn is far away. Where I live is small enough that word gets around. I would not do it to a local firm.

Also, you are far from the first to back out of a job offer. They'll get over it.

 

[nbucska]

I worked for a BIG company in CO. They hired an engineer
from CA. When he moved to here and reported to work,
he was laid off.

Loyalty should be a two way street...




<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032

 

[JAE]

A view from the other side...the one getting the offer.

I once made an offer to an individual. The accepted and agreed to come to work in two weeks. I contacted them occasionally and discussed further details of the job and offered to have them come in on a Saturday to get settled and briefed further.

On the very day they were to start work, they showed up, asked to speak privately to me, and then stated that they had taken another job elsewhere and wouldn't be "accepting" my offer.

I was disappointed of course, and somewhat angry....NOT that they had first said yes and then said no...but that they waited until the very day to begin work to tell me.

I would have understood if they had received the other offer, called me immediately, and then backed out...that would have then given me the opportunity to counter offer and/or to begin looking for another person to fill the position....as it happened, my rejection letters to others that I had interviewed had to be called back or recanted - very awkward.

If you decide, do it quickly and let them know in a timely manner.

 

[jimbo]

This does not involve engineers, but I find it amusing.

Several years ago, my friend was in the personnel dept. of a utility company. They interviewed a person who was described as a "hippie" and qualified. He inquired about vacation, sick leave and personal leave, among other things, and was hired.

On the day he was to begin work, he did not show up. The next day when he did come in, he said he took a personal leave day.

The only problem was that he didn't tell anyone first, and it was to be his first day of work.

jimbo

Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

 

[patprimmer]

A contract is a contract.

Your word is a verbal contract. It is just as binding as a written contract, but is obviously more difficult to enforce as the evidence supporting it is weak and maybe unreliable (who remembers EXACTLY what they said.

To knowingly break a contract is unethical. Examples of unethical behaviour on the part of the other side may be a practical reason for breaking the contract, but it still does not make your actions ethical in the strict sense of the word.

If you did that in the business circles I mix in, you would do your reputation such serious damage that it would be difficult to function in your job.

Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[buzzp]

Thats good Jimbo! I am still laughing.

All offer letters I have had clearly state that employment can be terminated at will/without notice by either party. There are no contracts associated with an offer letter, generally.

I think JAE makes a valid point, to tell them ASAP. I would not feel bad about changing your mind. It is better to do it before you start. Of course, smaller communities have less opportunities so you may limit future, local opportunities within your area. I have been in this situation as well and had to turn down an offer. I never intend not to take a job when I apply for it but when your looking for a change you often find multiple jobs your interested in. It just happens that way. Don't feel bad about it.

Chances are the company would not even think twice about sacking you on the first day, if they felt the need. This does not mean you should do it but don't ever think they would have the same concerns if the tables were turned. I feel sorry for anyone naive enough to think they would.

 

[jsummerfield]

You can change your mind. If the local opporutnity is better than the remote opportunity then accept the better deal for you. Engineers are a commodity. Someone else will fill the other job. Unless some truly exceptional situation exists, your reputation will not be damaged - escept with the manager who made the offer.

You may not want to apply at that remote location for a few years. However, sometime the more distant future you could be able to go there too.

John

 

[McCormick93]

It is more ethical to back out now than to wait one or two years, after they have trained you, and then make them repeat the hiring process.

 

[patprimmer]

Ethics is about meeting your obligations, not about kindness and consideration.

If you promise to start, you should start. If the agreement says either party can back out, you can back out, if the agreement is 1 weeks notice, 1 months notice or a 5 year contract, you should give that notice and complete that contract, unless it is dissolved by mutual consent, or broken by the other party.

I agree, if you are going to back out, the earlier you advise, the better.

If you say you are having second thoughts for "X" reasons, but will meet the contract if required, the other party might release you. All involved will at least know you are a man of your word.

Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[sr12]

Here's another interesting scenario I'm stuck in right now and I could use some advice. My company hired someone who was moving here from out of town. He accepted the offer about 6 weeks ago and started this week. On his first day, I heard from a close friend at another local firm that he had contacted them last week (well after having accepted our offer) and is trying to set up an interview with them for next week. My friend's company would have been very interested in him - his experience is very valuable. They contacted him to let him know that they heard he had already accepted an offer at a different company (mentioned our company name specifically), but if things have since changed, they would be interested in speaking with them. He responded (from here at his work computer, but through a home email acct) in a way that insinuated that he was still in the job search process and is keeping all of his options open. He definitely did not let on that he had already started the job here.

I am very surprised at his response mostly b/c he has to be wondering how this second company knows he had an offer from us. Why would he tell them he was still in the job search process if he knew there was a good chance they had been in contact with someone from here? Wouldn't you suspect that whatever you told them could get back to your current employer?

This other company no longer wants him b/c they feel he's being shady and they don't want to be the next employer he strings along. It's strange b/c his employment history had actually been very stable and he has very good reasons for moving. Nothing out of the ordinary or questionable until this.

Anyway, I have not told my department head that I know the new person is actively looking for another job. Personally, I can't blame the guy for keeping his options open and hoping he finds a job he might like better. However, I do feel that he just accepted our offer b/c it was easier to have something when he moved, but planned to continue his job search once he was here. The fact that he contacted this other company after he accepted our offer, but before his first day here gives me the impression he was never satisfied with this position and never intended to stay.

I know that if I tell the department head, this guy is getting fired. It wil be about 2 weeks before he is full time charging to projects and before then, all of his time is being charged to overhead at a very high salary. Training, HR paperwork, orientation, and everything else with the likelihood that we will never recover it b/c he will leave soon. Plus, we have been passing over other qualified applicants since the day he accepted. But I don't really want to be responsible for him losing his job. That second company might be the only place he was in touch with for all I know. If I knew that someone who had been working here for a while was looking for a new job, I wouldn't consider telling management at all. It's up to that person to decide what's best for them and if that means leaving this company, then that's ok. They may decide not to leave. I have been the sounding board for several people considering job changes during my career and have switched jobs once myself. I just see this differently b/c his time here is a waste of our time and resources and I don't think he ever intended to stay. This is just a paycheck to him until he finds what he wants.

I'd like to just stay out of this altogether, but it fell into my lap. If he leaves in the next few weeks and this story comes out, I'd be in trouble for not saying anything earlier. Any advice - anyone??

 

[COKA]

Did you think about confronting the guy? So far, nobody knows his real motives... But if you let him know that you know what he has been doing behind your company's back, you may get a better idea on the "why" he's been looking for another job.

On the other hand, you can simply try to get it out of him and see what he is going to tell you. If you find out that his story is indeed shady, well you better tell management and fast! This guy seems to be a backstabber, and you don't want to be his next victim.

Coka

 

[BJC]

"I heard from a close friend "
"He responded (from here at his work computer, but through a home email acct)" How do you know this?? or this?
"This other company no longer wants him b/c they feel he's being shady and they don't want to be the next employer he strings along."

It doesn't sound like this "fell into your lap". It's all hearsay, can you acctually verify any of it?
If you see the guy take a computer or something and put it in his car -tell you boss, Otherwise you don't know for sure what the guy is doing or thinking.
Using hearsay and rumors to judge someone is pretty petty, would you want someone to do it to you? Is the guy doing the job he was hired to do? If so,end of story.

 

[sr12]

The "close friend" is my husband, so yes I do know for sure. We talk about work frequently and he recognized the person's name when his boss mentioned the resume. He told his boss that he was pretty certain that was the person my company had just hired and asked his boss to check the date he received the resume. They figured they were just too late in contacting him and missed out. His company was very interested in interviewing this guy, but realized it would put me in an awkward position - as I seem to be anyway. Their thinking, which I agree with, is that if he's planning to leave anyway, why not take him for themselves? When they contacted him and he was hiding the fact that he had actually accepted and started a job already, they didn't want to deal with him anymore. If he had told them the truth, he'd likely be in there today for an interview. They would also like to keep a good relationship with my company and felt it was better to be open with me about what was going on if they chose to bring him in for an interview. If he had not already accepted our job and started here, then all's fair when you're competing for experienced engineering staff.

We don't have walls in our office - it's all open. I sit about 15' from the new person and I can see that he's had Yahoo email open several times if I even glance in his direction. Trust me that I'm not snooping around and I'd really rather not even know that this was going on. I am inclined to not say anything to anyone just to stay out of it. But I do feel an obligation to tell my dept. head. If I were in his position, I would certainly want to know and be upset that someone knew it and didn't tell me.

I would hope that the dept. head would ask the new person directly to explain what his intentions are, and then decide what to do. However, I am pretty certain they would fire him, so it's not like I'd just be informing them of the situation and stepping out of it, telling myself that it's up to them and it's not my decision. I think I alreday know the consequences.

 

[IRstuff]

Bear in mind that if he was moved at company expense from another city, the moving cost benefit might be forfeited if the employee leaves the company within 1 year.

TTFN

 

[BJC]

If I were working where the department head would act on rumors and hearsay I'quit. If I were your supervisor I'd ask you what you know for certain and if can you verify it. If you couldn't I might consider firing you. Nothing hurts the moral ( and in turn the performance) of an organization like petty bickering, backstabing and immature behavior. How would you feel if someone started a rumor that you were having an affair with someone in the office? They could probably start one with as much valadity as the one your making agains the new employee.
Your still using terms like "pretty certain", " Their thinking, " ( you don't know what their thinking), " If he had told them the truth" ( do you have any proof that he didn't?". ).
"I can see that he's had Yahoo email open..." Did you read the messages? do you have copie? Could he be writing vendors? this forum maby? all professionally related activities.
If the guy gets fired and decides to bring suit against you or name you in the suit, you don't have a fact to justify anything you have said. A good lawyer will make you look like a gosspy teenager at a pajama party.
The term "professional" applies to more than the technical part of your work.

 

[sr12]

It is not a rumor that he began searching for another job after he had accepted this position, days before he was to start, and continued to try to set up an interview with them during his first few days actually working here. This is all fact. It is also a fact that he told the other firm that he was still in the job search process. A lie by omission - not admitting having already started a job - is still a lie. I am completely confident in what I already know. I wouldn't even consider going to management based on a rumor. Nothing good can come out of that.

I'm not interested in why he's on Yahoo email at work. I really don't care if he's emailing friends or old colleagues or sending chain mail jokes or whatever. The other company got his response by email yesterday during work hours. It's an obvious assumption. I'm not talking about a court of law where you'd need a hard copy of someone's actual email. Besides, I already said my husband's company told me everything that was going on. His response to them was not honest and they based their decision on that. What proof do you need that someone started a job and told you otherwise?? It's not even arguable.

True, I don't know 100% what management would do if they knew all the facts. From working here and knowing the people involved, I'm inclined to think they'd be less torn than I am, considering all of the time and money we invest in a person in their first few weeks for training and orientation and all of the other applicants we're passing up. Why should they spend the next few weeks worrying over someone who may or may not stay and then they'd be suspicious of every "sick day". Do you take the time to review resumes still coming in for this position, tell a great candidate that the position is already filled even though you know it might not be the next day?

This person is the victim of an unfortunate coincidence, certainly. I don't know what I would do myself if something better came along after having accepted another job. But I'm not on that end this time. I'm on the end of acting in the company's best interests. I don't know if I would agree with it if they chose to fire him, but I can definitely see their point if they did.

I really don't understand, BJC, where you're coming up with this as gossip and rumor. The only assumptions are what this guy is thinking and I can't even begin to guess that.

 

[aspearin1]

My college professor, (who is now the department head, and teacher of the year many times over), flatly told the class one day that if we accept a position and then get offered a better one, not to feel bad about going back and declining the original job. His justification was that companies these days would have no problem pulling back an offer they've extended to you, if presented with a complication. He admits there was a time when professional courtesy kept these doors open, but that that time is long gone, and an engineer needs to look out for his or her own best interests.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee