Addition of 8 storeys on a HISTORIC building 2

[NAFTALI-HAKOHEN]

hi all,

were planning a renovation/restoration of a 3 storey historic structure, with walls made from stone, molded together with kind of mud-mortar,

to put a 8 storey structure on top.

im struggling to find any material or methodology (online or elsewhere) about how to restore (structurally) the current stone walls - without disturbing the exterior look of the walls too much,

does anyone have any experience or guidance on this kind of thing?

my boss has an idea to excavate the interior of the walls ,insert steel spiral cage and pour concrete in, to create RFC wallls on which to build up, has anyone heard of such a procedure/process?

the building interior has interior arches, whichneed officially to be preserved...does anyone know if this is possible?

any guidance ,or case studies on somewhere this has been done would be appreciated,

thanks,

naftali

 

[dik]

Are there any heritage issues if an historic building.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[kipfoot]

In the US the National Park Service publishes preservation guidelines. This would be a good place to start relative to the restoration of the stone. Preservation Brief 2

To support additional stories, you'll have to be creative to incorporate new structure within the footprint of the existing building. The new concrete column idea might be part of the answer, but I'd expect that the new structure will have a significant affect on the layout of the interior spaces with new columns and lateral bracing.

 

[Enable]

Whenever I have been involved in these projects we always kept the façade and built a new structure from within. There is just no way to accurately judge the condition of the existing structure for that kind of additional load.

Bearing can be tricky as well given your walls may not even have footings.

 

[dik]

Thanks for the material... I have a fairly comprehensive paper on Historic Brickwork... something to compare it to.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Just a caution... whenever you change the load regime on any building, you may have unintentional issues.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[BAretired]

Sounds like a gutsy project. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

BA

 

[Asher47]

Gut the entire inside and just preserve the exterior all the way around, shore down to get a few stories of parking below, get the architect to fit new design into the existing openings and throw in some trendy exposed braced frames

 

[phamENG]

I believe the OP mentioned that there are interior stone arches that must be preserved. In that case, you'll likely need to find a place where you can carry columns down through the existing to support a new structure. Do you have any room on the parcel outside of the footprint? I believe there was a building featured in Modern Steel in the last year or two that did exactly this. They sacrificed about 1/8th of the usable space of the existing building to run two giant columns through it, and used the parking lot next to the building for a high rise foundation that was joined to the historic structure. Once the new cleared the roof elevation of the old, they stepped it over and supported it on the new columns. It was really something. If I can find it I'll post it...

kipfoot's post is about as good as it gets for historic masonry preservation. I've used that document on all sorts of historic brick and one stone building.

 

[NAFTALI-HAKOHEN]

hi,

thanks for the guidance,

because of the heritage/conservation status of structure it seems we'll have to keep the facades and interiors as close to what they are now,

is there a way to reinforce the existing elements (digging out the mud interior and pouring concrete/rebar - inside) whilst keeping the exterior layer of mud/stone, so the element keeps its
original antique look, but is structurally sound to take serious loads from above?

heres pic of the structure:

thanks

 

[LittleInch]

What is the "mud interior" you speak of?

How thick are these walls?

You forgot to mention it was on sloping ground.

More importantly, what can you potentially do to create foundations strong enough to support another 8 floors without causing the existing structure to collapse?

You need to think of this structure as simply a bunch of stones sitting on the ground maybe 300mm below ground level held together by gravity alone.

It's either a total re-build carefully marking each stone in its current position or building some sort of internal or external skeleton around the existing structure and somehow creating a separate set of foundations to make sure the building is still standing when you finish.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[dik]

Careful... 8 stories of CFS wall and wrinkle tin will do wonders for the appearance...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[kipfoot]

When you mention interior arches, are you talking about a masonry vaulted arch roof? I'd suggest that you don't puncture this roof with new columns. As others have suggested, your best option may be a dramatic exoskeleton or a stone-by-stone reconstruction of the existing building within a new structure.

 

[JLNJ]

It makes no sense to try to place anything significant on top of an existing historic structure like this. There are a lot of complications and pitfalls here. Potential disaster awaits.


Sounds like you need to tell your boss his idea stinks and that he needs to hire a skilled specialist with experience in this type of retrofit.

 

[1503-44]

As Little Inch says, the foundations for the new structural elements will be substantial. Either underpinning and new footings will be needed, or piles. Both are very likely to do substantial damage to the existing building, be costly and the final result will probably look something like a a Frankinstein design anyway. Figure out that foundation problem before you even think about how many stories you can get on top. As far as maintaining a historic appearance, a 10 story version of a building of that type stonework would never have been built. The bottom walls would have been so thick that you would only have 50%, maybe less, of the floor area remaining usable inside the walls. What history are you trying to preserve?

 

[canwesteng]

Any approach that preserves these elements is going to cost a fortune, the extra money spent on a specialist in this area would be a rounding error on the cost of the project and probably save substantial cost in the long run.

 

[BigH]

Years ago, they renovated McGraw Hall on the Cornell Arts Quad. As noted above, they left the facade and built new behind if my memory serves me right. I'd not even think of putting 8 stories on the existing structure wall. Side question - what would the new 8 stories look like - keep the "culture" or look "new"?

 

[hetgen]

These things are like the Ship of Theseus Paradox.

Unless you get guidance from the agency designating it as 'Historic' you will not know what can be safely removed; just keeping the facade may not be accepted if the inner part of the building has historical significance.

 

[dik]

See my comment about wrinkletin siding...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik