Air Force 1

[bigTomHanks]

I am considering taking a job as an officer with the Air Force as an engineer. Has anyone ever done this? Please advise me on this matter.
Thank You

 

[BJC]

It ain't just a job. Lots of people love it. The upside is you get to play with toys that folks on the outs can't imagine. Go talk to some people who are in.

 

[mshimko]

I did it, sort of, about 30 years ago with the Navy.

It's not for everyone, obviously, but it can be very rewarding.

Just be sure to (1) get very specific about what career path you are goin into, what's possible, what's probably, and what you have no control over, and (2) try to speak to someone in the same career path/community you are entering (or in other words - don't just believe the recruiter's pitch!)

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Straight out of college, I did this also, it is a great way to gain experience. Recommend that you look into assignments in AF Materiel Command. Consider investigating Aeronautical Systems Center (ASC) or AF Research Laboratory (AFRL) both at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH. The Air Force is always looking for mechanical engineers for these assignments.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[tygerdawg]

Long time ago I thought about it. The student chapter of AIAA was invited on a weekend "tour" of Eglin AFB in Ft Walton Beach FL: transported, wined, dined, it was great. At the time we were all starry-eyed students with visions of flying jets into the wild blue yonder. Eglin was then also the USAF's primary research facility for all non-nuclear weaponry. The "tour" was actually a recruiting trip to join the USAF as engineers. But the engineering facilities were really cool whiz-bang, high-tech interesting stuff. The personnel there seemed to be well-rounded, very competent engineers who really enjoyed it and had a lot of comraderie. Some had even taken advantage of the USAF to complete Ph.D.'s in engineering at taxpayer expense.

To join would have required a six-year minimum commitment and what appeared (to me) to be complete loss of personal freedom (duty was wherever the USAF needed you to be, but usually at places like Eglin, Wright-Patterson, etc). While defense-related weapons engineering seems to some of the highest of high-tech, the troubling issue (for me) was that I would be working on equipment whose usual design purpose was to kill people. Being young, know-it-all, and fiercely independent, I felt also that joining the military required certain personality traits that I didn't possess in great quantity. And as one of the USAF guys told me when I asked him about being a pilot, "No, we would want you to be an engineer."

Just my $0.02. It could be a great thing for the right person. I chose a different path which was probably just as rocky.

TygerDawg

 

[TheTick]

Most military billets will offer opportunities to lead and manage early in your career. Such opportunities don't come along until much later in a civilian career. To me, this was the greatest advantage of being in the military (I'll cut you some slack and include the Air Force in with the military. )

If you are interested in engineering in a military career, I highly recommend you take a closer look at the U.S. Navy, especially the nuclear field. Navy nuc officers are prized by civilian recruiters. Even if you don't go nuc, every ship is a floating power plant.

I did college after the navy. After Navy nuc school, college was easy to handle.

I could be the world's greatest underachiever, if I could just learn to apply myself.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[debodine]

TheTick:

Thanks for the slack, squid...from a former flyboy! )

Seriously though, one of my son's young friends just signed up for a tour as a sonar operator on a submarine. My son also seriously considered the Navy as well, in part because of the excellent reputation of Navy schooling. Even though the Air Force schools were good to me, I have met a lot of Navy personnel who were well trained and to me it is obvious that Navy schools are top notch. I think my son's friend will thoroughly enjoy both his training and his service.

bigTomHanks:

I spent all of my twenty years at Wright-Patterson AFB (five years active duty and fifteen in the Air Force Reserve), and I am well aware that much of the gee-whiz stuff of the military is researched there. However, I was not an engineer there, but an enlisted technician so my perspective is not exactly what you need.

However, I did get to know some folks who did (and still do) what you are considering. One friend of mine is a civilian aerodynamics engineer there, and he has done wind tunnel research twenty years ago that has been flying for some time now. And some of the stuff he is currently researching could be flying in the next decade.

Another friend of mine did research into advanced battle damage repair systems, one offshoot of which ended up as the miniaturized headset/database systems where a tech can wear an eyepiece and dynamically look up technical data as he is observing the aircraft damage. I don't know that this is an operating system on the flight line yet (been away from the military for over ten years), but it was gee-whiz stuff at the time.

As several writers have remarked, there will no doubt be some areas of a career that the military will not let you control. But the experience and the graduate schooling my friends acquired (especially if you get into the research areas) would be world class.

 

[smwpe]

bigtom:

My advice, based on some experience: Go with the USAF.

As one of the forum said, you will be exposed to "world class" advanced education opportunities..it is the future.

And, after a relatively short time, you will have a resume that will water your eyes.

All the best.

 

[mshimko]

I'll add to Tick's comments above....since I, too, don't usually consider the Air Force to be part of the military

The "community" is what's important in any of the services. Tick mentioned the nuclear field, which has extensive sea tours (and if you think the military in general "restricts your life style", just wait until you enter the field of Naval Reactors!). Another community to consider is Engineering Duty. I'm sure the Air Force has it's club-med equivalents......

There is a down-side to entering the military for an engineering career, though. All in the military eventually leave the military. When you do, your military experience will be considered enviable to some, and so-so to others. If you leave the military and want to enter business, management, or a engineering specifically supporting the military, you will be in good shape. If you leave the miitary and try to compete as, for example, a "typical engineer with 4-5 years experience", you'll have an uphill battle (not impossible, but clearly uphill).

I provide this as a retired Navy Engineering Duty Officer, now working as a senior engineer and engineering manager, and not a bit biased regarding the Air Force (or the Army, which wasn't even worth mentioning

 

[xnuke]

I agree with mshimko about the uphill battle. Engineers in the military are usually in project management or operations/maintenance engineering roles. They tend to miss out on design experience that their peers get in the first six years out of college, and often have difficulty moving into a design role when they leave the military. If you want to be a design engineer, I suggest you reconsider serving in the military.

xnuke
"Do you think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[zipthetrip]

BIG TOM, I WAS IN THE AIR FORCE AND I NEED TO TELL YOU ONLY ONE THING. ONLY 2% OF AIR FORCE FLIES. AS AN ENGINEER YOUR FEET WILL BE FIRMLY PLANTED ON THE GROUND. WHEN YOUR FEEY ARE FIRMLY PLANTED ON THE GROUND YOU ARE KING OF THE FOOD CHAIN. IF YOU JOIN THE NAVY, YOUR CHANCES OF GOING TO SEA ARE ALMOST 100%. IN THE OCEAN YOU ARE PART OF THE FOOD CHAIN. I LIKE THE AIR FORCE PERCENTAGES WAY BETTER PLUS THE AIR FORCE HAS JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING THE NAVY HAS AS FAR AS TECHNICAL STUFF AND AREA 51!

 

[smwpe]

zipthetrip:

I am not sure where you are coming from, but I do agree with your analysis.

Today, the best thing that a young person could do is to sign up with the USAF. They could, if they have the IQ, develop a resume that will make their life special.

Comments from the forum?

 

[BJC]

smwpe
I agree. Although he might want to check out the Army and the Corp of Engineers. The Core has lots of civilian jobs and people comming of of active duty get first shot at them. The jobs are in some pretty nice places.
ZIPTHETRIP.
The correct order is Army, Navy and them Air Force. The reason I can walk a lot further than I can swim and I can swim a lot further than I can fly.

 

[TheTick]

An important fact to consider about the USAF: no vacancy! The air force is full. If you plan to do more than one hitch, chances for promotion are the worst of all the services (army is the best, BTW). You may even end up losing your commission after getting passed over too many times and becoming an overeducated NCO. It does happen.

 

[bigTomHanks]

>>ONLY 2% OF AIR FORCE FLIES<<
Somebody has to be that 2%. Who says that I can't be. I don't think anyone on here is in the position to make that kind of judgement about me. I really get annoyed by people who just count themselves out of something just because the opportunity is not available for everyone. The people who end up in those upper minorities are what I call leaders.

Thanks to all for the wonderful advice.

 

[BJC]

TheTick
I understand the Air Force is full of english majors and history majors. Engineers are still in demand.

 

[MintJulep]

I think what zipthetrip was trying to get at was that the Air Force has a large percentage of REMFs, and since REMFs have less opportunity to get shot at, they are better off; whereas in the Navy when the ship goes down everybody swims.

BTH,

If you want to fly, go for it.

However, consider that if you are an AF pilot then the most likely career path when/if you get out is airline pilot. The airlines aren't in great shape these days.

If you go AF in a technical support role you will likely have more future options.

 

[GregLocock]

Yes, that's a good way of looking at it.

3 year engineering degree+10 years pilot experience=pilot, not engineer.

Oddly enough engineering needs engienering practice, not joystickery.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[TheTick]

I LIKE THE AIR FORCE PERCENTAGES WAY BETTER

If you consider mortality rates of airedales and squids...

In recent military actions, airedales... well... drop like flies. Then start counting accidents.

Number of ships lost in the last 30 years: 0

I could be the world's greatest underachiever, if I could just learn to apply myself.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[SlideRuleEra]

bigTomHanks - I have been waiting to see your response to the advice that you have been receiving. The following may sound controversial, but it is intended as a compliment:
To be a pilot you have got to have "unshakable" confidence in your own ability - it is essential to make necessary, in-flight, split-second decisions. Your response seems to indicate that you do.

I was not a pilot, but I was project engineer for developement of certain aircraft life support equipment (was a Mechnical Engineer at that time), and I DID fly (as part of my job) on occasion. If you get into the right areas of the AF there are flight test engineers who get as many hours as some pilots.

Also, later in an (active duty) AF career virtually all of the AF R&D System Program Offices (SPOs) are headed and managed by rated (pilot) officers who have an engineering background. If you continue to meet the physical requirements, you still get to fly also. (Once a pilot has been trained, the AF does NOT "ground" them without cause - too much money invested.)

My four years active duty at WPAFB was very rewarding (every bit of it counted 100% towards taking, and passing, the PE exam). In fact I stayed on for another 18 years in the AF Reserve, most of that time also associated with WPAFB.

BTW here is a sample of my work as a military development engineer; updated, but still in use, after more than 30 years (as a pilot, you may get the chance to use it)

http://www.gentexcorp.com/West/mbu12p.htm

Best Wishes,
SlideRuleEra
Major, USAFR (Ret)

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net