Airliner cabin air 1

[JayMaechtlen]

The LA Times has an article Dec 20 titled "Toxic fumes on airplanes make crews, fliers sick"
I'm having trouble finding that article online, but here is a related article:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-17/how-we-investigated-toxic-chemicals-on-airplanes

"The Times’ analysis of NASA safety reports alone counted 362 fume events reported in 2018 and 2019, nearly 400 crew members or passengers who received medical attention and four dozen pilots who were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties."

" Dizzy or confused pilots were not counted as impaired unless a report explicitly stated they were unable to perform their duties."

Sounds like there's an engineering failure or two here...

Jay Maechtlen

http://www.laserpubs.com/techcomm

 

[verymadmac]

I can't add much except once I had reason to seal all the cabin vents and drive all the cabin heat air through the cockpit vents, it smoked out the cockpit quite well for a few minutes while it cooked all the crud out of the SCAT tubing.

It was a 19 seat turboprop on freight work that would set fire to the fish bins if they ran cabin heat while loaded, but that meant no heat for the cockpit.

 

[dik]

From Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ens-forced-make-emergency-landing-Zurich.html

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[moon161]

With the switch from LOX to OBOGS (onboard air generation systems) that concentrate 02 from bleed air theres a fair number of stories of chronic cough/lung problems in US fighter pilots.

 

[EdStainless]

Ever fly in an L1011? Do you still smell like jet fuel?
The make-up air is both compressed and chilled, and recirc air is either chilled or heated so there are lots of places to introduce contaminants.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[JohnRBaker]

Ever fly in an L1011?

Just once, back in 1985, on a flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico to New York City. I don't remember smelling fuel, but when we landed, a section of the overhead bins came loose and almost hit a passenger sitting just a couple of rows in front of me.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[davidbeach]

I’ve had one flight in an L1011. It was back in the early 90’s, a TWA flight (I think my only one of those too) all the way from PDX to SEA. Probably as many flight crew as passengers. The next leg was to be from SEA to JFK. I find it hard to believe that overnight parking at SEA would have cost more than the flight in and out of PDX with overnight parking at PDX. One of those flights where the plane climbs until it’s time to begin the descent.

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

There is a load of stuff on this effect dating back decades. It seems to be a bit like the medical reports about smoking before they eventually gave in.

One side produces a report and then the other does the same with conflicting conclusions.

There is colossal amounts of money involved in this and huge on going lobbying. To be honest I don't think the regulators are wanting to touch it either because they would be taking partial blame for not doing anything for the last 60 years.

On most aircraft the air comes from the low pressure engine compressor at high power settings and from the high pressure at low settings. The engines use sacrificial oil weeping seals and it discharges it into the airflow into the combustion chamber. Some turbo props from the 70's used the bleed air to power turbines that compressed clean air that then went into the cabin. The 787 has a similar system but its unique to my knowledge in regards to over 20 ton jets.

To be honest I think its a maint issue not a design issue. Also sector length and usage of having to swap to the HP compressor port. Different companies same aircraft and fleet age. One has huge issues with it and the other no problems. For example easy jet in the UK doesn't seem to have an issue with it on its A320 fleet but yet British airways seems to.

It then goes in circles with the finger pointing. Aircraft OEM's point fingers at the main engine OEM's who then say its not us and point the finger at the APU engine OEM's who say we don't use weeping seals then point the finger at the air cycle machine OEM's who then say not us we use free spinning air bearing turbines and then point the finger back at the aircraft OEM's. But for a bit of variety they sometimes change who they point the finger at and include the oil supplier and the airline maint.

Personally I have never had an event but know people that have. Apparently its not very pleasant and can be life altering. Some people take a hit harder than others. Its basically sheep dip poisoning. And you can build up a critical amount of it over several years before it eventually triggers a medical event. The event I know about first hand from the pilots the 50 year old kebab eating any 24h period without flying the first 5 hours is dedicated to getting 10 pints of beer down his neck Captain ended up feeling crap for 2-3 days after barfing on the day in question and then was back to work and is still working. The 26 year old, marathon running, glass of wine occasionally ended up having to stop flying due to neurological issues. CAA doctors and company lawyers say he has MS and his doctors say he had organophosphate poisoning. BALPA which is the pilots union in the UK didn't want to touch it either. Luckily he was able to go back to being an optician and the last I heard he was aged 33 with 3 kids and still running marathons, symptoms faded over 2 years as his chemical load decreased. But the main thing for the CAA and airline was it didn't get put down as a work related accident condition and no compensation was paid.

 

[RedSnake]

We have large air pressure tanks in the basement, they supply a double cylinder with compressed air, the other side is hydraulic.
Sometimes hydraulic oil comes over on the wrong side.
And when the air tanks are to evacuate air and something has gone wrong, they blow out the oil with the compressed air in to the basement.
Then it will be like the worst London fog down there.

Nowadays we are not allowed to go down there without a respirator with a proper filter.
Getting hydraulic oil down into the lungs can cause chemical pneumonia.
It can not be treated with medicine because it is not caused by bacteria.
The only thing healthcare can do, is provide life support and hope that the body fixes the problem itself.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Pretty much every fluid in aviation is hazardous to your health including the coffee.

 

[RedSnake]

Yes, especially if it is made on freeze-dried coffee or if it is made with Italian coffee machines. LOL
An old friend of mine was on his way to Chicago on a working trip when they hade to make an emergency landing in Greenland because the new italien coffe maschine started to burn on the plane The plane was also new an Airbus 330.
Apparently this happened at two different flights..

Coffee must be pitch black, strong and preferably a coffee spoon should stand up in the cup.
It is the only way to avoid problems if you intend to drink large amounts
Watery coffee is the worst thing there is for the stomach.

BR A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein