All BLACK vectors setting?

[cfee]

Remember the "all vectors black" settings in previous windows versions of ACAD? Does it still exist in 2002?
In 14 its part of the "options" dialog box, at display>colors. Am I just missing it here?
I need to show all vectors black for a particular purpose, and I'd rather not have to reset all my layer colors.
Thanks-
CFee

 

[IFRs]

What do you mean by "vectors" ?

You can change all objects' color to 7 (white/black) then when done, set all objects' color to "bylayer". Crude, but effective....

 

[rKeyTek]

Curious?

Why not change the background to white?
That should give you "BLACK" vectors .... provided that they're WHITE, right now.

HTH,
Rich

 

[cfee]

C'Mon guys... if you have a copy of r-14 available, you can go to preferences, and under display>colors, (you know-where you set your screen to white or black) there's a check box for all vectors to black. Its purpose is to keep you from having to LABORIOUSLY change all layers to black, capture the vectors for faxing... without having to change printer settings... and then having to change everything back. I was hoping they had just moved the setting, or at least there was a variable I could set (usually check boxes just reset a variable), do what I needed to do and set back. If its gone, I'm sure that's just another example of where some programmer just couldn't see why it was there and sold management on permission to remove it. Oh well. We lose again.

Oh- and by the way- I'd love you to post the question "What are vectors" as a question on this forum. I'd love to see the responses you'd get! Anyway, still looking for hope...

C. Fee

 

[rKeyTek]

DUDE!

Your comment seemed a little harsh.

Personnaly, I've never seen the need to use that setting in AutoCAD r14.

To IFRs:
Vectors are the lines and elements WE (you and me) draw in AutoCAD.

The reference comes from the MATH realm. Since the definition for a vector is a line defined by 2 points.

And a RASTER ... when and if you hear it ....
Is any image format. (TIFFs, JPEGs, BMPs, GIFs, CALs, etc..)

Sorry CFEE ... I couldn't help

 

[IFRs]

You could change your plotstyle to "monochrome" in the Print dialog...could probably be done with a macro...

Are you plotting to an internal fax-modem? Must not be as it would convert to all black.

Sorry, no help here.

 

[cfee]

Genuinely Sorry didn't mean to sound harsh.

I really wanted to see what folks would give as an answer to the "What are vectors?" question. I've heard some doozies!

rkeytek: Your answer was pretty close- one of the best I've heard! Also, I'm confident you're surprised I'd have a use for this. In my other post I mention just 3. I do ALOT with ACAD that most don't think about. For instance, have you ever tried formatting a drawing in WORD as a cheap (read FREE) drawing viewer that NO-ONE has to download and nearly everyone knows how to use, including red-lining commenting and zooming, etc? What If you want to fax that very same document to another client who has no ACAD and no viewer but would LOVE getting a print that was READABLE across his fax machine? And this just scratches the surface. He already paid for and knows how to use WORD, doesn't need ACAD, doesn't need a viewer, and CERTAINLY knows how to pull a sheet off his fax machine, scribble some comments, draw a few circles, and send it right back to you without walking away from the fax machine, or trying to figure out how to do attachments and other stuff we take for granted. All I want him to do is be able to respond to my design and cut me a check I'll do everything else in between!

Suggestions regarding the plot dialog... are not the direction for a solution here. That silly little check box in r14 preferences, to set all vector to monochrome was EXTREEMLY convenient (read POWERFUL) for these and many other uses.

Any suggestions?

Thanks-
C. Fee

 

[IFRs]

You mention Word as a method to distribute drawings. I find that making a pdf is easier, makes a higher resolution image, is a much smaller file and is more universally viewable world wide.

 

[cfee]

IFRS: Absolutely! And with the widespread availability of PDF print drivers, there's almost no excuse not to at least make that option available! It has the added benefit of being fairly secure.
However- and this is a BIG however: Far fewer people (ex: CLIENTS) have the ability to view, markup, redline and comment within a PDF file, and then use their computer &/or fax machine to return the results to someone on my team for rework, etc. Remember, we're looking at a complete strategy here, and almost every secretary in the country, and many of their bosses have the ability to do what I've mentioned. I've had a significant number of projects conclude successfully by returning control (or a sense of control) to the client. And that means paychecks for all. I don't have a single client who because they did business with me who were forced to learn a single new software or proceedure. Suddenly however, I have a client who wants these features, and I was going to forward him a document like we've discussed, but couldn't because I'd have to reset settings and write macros. He is now forced to buy a reader, or download the "FREE" one from ADESK's website, AND LEARN TO USE IT. And this doesn't begin to touch on some of the other issues I've mentioned here, and many I haven't. So again, I remain hopeful...

Thanks again-
C. Fee

 

[CarlB]

I think IFR is on target - "crude, but effective". A change colors, print screen, undo, is about as quick as finding the "all vectors to black" check box (if there is one). By the way, is an arc a vector? Don't you want them black also?

 

[rKeyTek]

WOW

So many comments after one from me ...

Anyway ....

The WORD senario ...
IFRs Would be on the right road with MONOCHROME.CTB.
Print the DWG to WMF with Monochrome.CTB and INSERT th WMF into WORD.
But CFEE, you're right about email attachments for the BIG SUITS. But that's why the girls are there for assistance. A secretary should know how to do that.

The FAX senario ...
Well again ..
Print the DWG with Monochrome.CTB to LETTER size and fax away.

But the EXPRESS VIEW from AutoDESK senario ....
Would seem to be the best soltuion.
You know ... the BIG SUITS had to learn how to email.
And they definitely had to learn NEW accounting Procedures, because each office has their own baggage of procedures.
So why not have them "DOWNLOAD & LEARN" the viewer?

.......

And NO, an ARC is not a vector in the MATH realm, but the points used to create the arc ... falls under the same principals for CAD.
In other words, it's good enough ... so all elements created in CAD are vectors.

Later guys!

 

[smcadman]

Just a few comments,
First of all in r14 it is not an "all vectors black" checkbox, it is a "Monochrome Vectors" checkbox. The variables for plotting are now in the Page Setup dialog box, and in the Plot Style Table it is the "monochrome.ctb".
You mention faxing, then you mention Word. If you are faxing, why not have them red line it with a pen, then fax it back? If you are sending it to Word and you want it all in black, you could "laboriously" change all the colors to black in three steps by doing a "CTRL+A" then clicking the colors list to white/black, and the third step is to hit the "Escape" button. This will not change mtext if mtext-text color is different than "by-layer" and also will not change colored blocks to white/black.
You didn't say how you were sending the cad files to Word: as an image file, copy and paste, or whatever.

Here is a quick macro solution if you are using the "wmfout" command. If not by "wmfout", then change that to whatever command you are using. Also, simply "Undo" twice in ACAD to get you back where you were. The "wmfbkgnd" variable ignores the screen background color, so it can be black or whatever color you have it, but it will show up in Word as a white background.

^C^C(setvar"wmfbkgnd" 0) change all ;p c 7 ;wmfout

save the wmf file, then in Word simply Insert>Picture>From File.

Hope this helps,
Flores

 

[cfee]

All of these suggestions are fine, but each one involves changing internal settings (like layer colors...) or plotting to a file (wmf), writing a macro, or some such. In r-14 the total instruction would be "...click the checkbox "monochrome vectors". This would require no scripts or macros.

Oh and by the way, Word will receive ^c'ed vectors as native entities (wmf style vectors), for further use any way you wish (hint- ever try passing a series of small blocks to another user in a format they could "read" before dragging and dropping them into a target drawing?)

Yes, within the ACAD context, an arc would be considered a vector. Any object defined as a single discrete entity is considered a vector (this includes text but for different reasons), within the ACAD context. See how interesting such a simple question can be?

On secretaries: Yes a secretary can do this. That's kind of the point. He or she can do this without learning a new viewer... Also, I can format the figure any way I want it and pass it to the customer for their down-stream publication needs. This includes shaded or photo-rendered images as well, altho admittedly this is where we'd expand beyond the monochrome vectors issue, on into many other things that can be done with this basic starting approach. (hint: ever wanted to format and print a photo-rendered image with complete sheet position, print quality and typed annotation control without having to file translate to an image processing program as intermediate? Imagine being able to disregard tif,jpg,bmp translation and all similar issues?...)

On hand-marking a received fax: I've yet to find apractical approach to reinserting a hand-sketched markup back into attachable formats. Yes it can be written on and faxed back, but I have a requirement that as far as practical, my people keep electronic track of their correspondence, including faxable and attachable check-prints to their client contacts, and where possible directly re-integrate customer comments into the original drawings. Granted, this "WORD" approach only supports this process, but that's kind of the point. And where this becomes a sellable feature to the client as part of "their input to the design process", remember, paychecks...!

Smcadman: good suggestion, but the text, blocks, and colors limitations disqualify it. Yes, a 2-kestroke approach seems attractive, until you add the limitations.

Oh well. Win some, lose some.

Thanks anyway.

C. Fee

 

[rKeyTek]

HEY C-Fee,
CADaver just posted up a solution which may solve your problem here.

This doesn't want the black line work WHERE you DO WANT the black line work.

See if this helps ...

I still remember this problem you had and CADaver may have found your solution.

Check it out.
thread555-52814

Rich

 

[cfee]

Rich-
Thanks for the post. I tried its suggestion and was pleasantly surprised. However, as I place my title block, dimensions and all other drawing notes, rev lines, etc in P-Space (Layout Tab) and leave soldraw vectors within the soldraw-vports, the post clearly meets only a portion of the problem.

I've gotten ALOT of value out of being able to import an all-vectors-black drawing directly into Word, adding comments and other markups, faxing it dirrectly via the fax-modem in my computer, with nearly perfect clarity (= to any laser printer output) or else e-mailing the result to the client, where their secretary can receive the e-mail, detach the Word document, review the drawing, print it for their boss, add any comments directly to the Word file, where they can then re E-Mail it back to me save it for their own purposes, and use the image any other way they want (that we've agreed on)...
The power of the all black vectors was that I didn't have to jack with printer settings to get all black (no grey) lines, in a print out, I didn't have to take time on the phone talking a client through printer settings, and what they got "looked" like a drawing...
A PDF translation is quick, convenient, and usually trouble free, but provides only one of these procedural benefits, and has NOWHERE NEAR the clarity and resolution available to an embedded WMF file which within Word has unlimited zoom potential with NO LOSS OF DETAIL! A highly dense land use survey with building development layers-on can get quite dense, and at the zoom levels necessary for any reasonable amount of detail, a raster image (even one as nicely constructed as we find in a PDF file) begins to lose significant resolution detail at even modest zoom levels.

Thanks for everything, all. It seems that I'll be writing macros or other such, to control vector colors via layer or pen colors...

I just regret some "improvements". Remember r-12 c-1 printing? Or how about the migration of vports in r-11 to r-12! 2 other examples of "improvements" I've regretted.

Good luck and best wishes, all-
C. Fee

 

[CADaver]

I do nearly the same as you for Xmtl of engineering data. I use the "Display Plot Styles" in the LAYOUT and do a SHIFT+PRINT SCREEN to capture a screen shot for inserting into PHOTO EDITOR, then cut the drawing viewport for inserting into WORD. It's a two step process, but I've done it so often my hands do it without me thinkin' about it (which is a GOOD thing).

I'll fax that out to the job trailer somewhere outside South Podunk, Miss. to a construction hand that learned how to write on the last job. He'll mark it up with his crayon and get the secretary (learned to fax on the last job) to fax it back. Works like a charm.

 

[IFRs]

This is a lottle off-post, but: I use a program called BetterWMF to make wmf files for importing into word, excel, powerpoint, etc. It has a button for all-black vectors. See

http://www.furix.com/

 

[trainguy]

Here's my trick:

From ACAD2000 or higher, do a print preview, you'll see nice black lines on a white background. Zoom, pan to your heart's content, then hit PrintScrn on your keyboard. Open up MS Word, hit Paste, and voila, your screen dump has been completed. The resolution is not amazing, but it's a great way to quickly communicate ideas. If you've got 2 extra minutes, you can even crop out the edges in Word.

You're welcome...

 

[cfee]

CADAVER-
Yes, that's what I've been reduced to doing, too. See trainguy's post- pretty similar...

IFRS-
Yes, it looks like the only way to retain resolution is by capturing vectors, and with a straight ^c capture, the only requirement is to layer-change all vectors to black, assuming there's either a macro to revert or a couple of undo's assuming nothing worth keeping was done in the mean time. By adjusting the ACAD window edges to just around the part of the object you want to capture, you can even reduce or eliminate the extraneous white area around the capture. The only drawback is that if you ever want to print the resulting document, you have to fuss with pixel width of your vectors (sometimes at the printer), because they stay 0-width (1-pixel) vectors even in the target document, which can thus be zoomed to the max with no loss of resolution (unlike any screen capture, which is raster...). The drawback of purchasing an add-on program to control line width is obvious, as all other diagram manipulation can be done within Word, the usual target document program. Nevertheless, this issue alone makes something like it necessary, as otherwise the document is nearly useless to anyone wanting a print.

trainguy- Nice touch, except that the old "All monochrome vectors"(black on a white background)in r-14 was just as convenient, and addressed the issues in the preceeding paragraph.

It becomes even more apparent- "Sometimes improvements aren't".

Side-note-
I recently dropped a couple of documents describing suggested design changes, on my boss. We ended up distracted by whst he percieved as a lack of document quality resulting from a lack of line resolution in the captured detail. Imagine that!

Thanks everyone!
C. Fee

 

[trainguy]

That Furix.com site that IFRs suggests has amazingly useful stuff. BetterWMF is what I've been looking for after years of futzing around with Acad graphics in Word.

Also, they have a Drawing Compare utility that could greatly help highlighting the differences between 2 revisions of a drawing!

I don't work for them, but it's great stuff.

Kudos, IFRs