I am a junior civil/structural engineer, and I have been working at this company for over a year. When I talk to my colleages, they are receiving their own projects, then having an engineer oversee their work. However, in my case I get zero projects, I just assist the engineers every once in a while, only when the engineering manager instructs them to. They keep me completely out of the loop on everything and most days I just sit there and do nothing. The other departments have their junior engineers always in the loop (bringing them to meetings, discussing front-end on projects, going over calculations), while I sit here and study for my PE all day since I have nothing to do. The other junior engineers hardly even speak to me, definitely feeling like the black sheep. Do you guys have any suggestions regarding my situation? Any input will be greatly appreciated.
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Always out of the loop 7
- Thread starter Leftwow
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2
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I would go to my boss and ask, point blank, what the deal is. I could be that they want you to focus on getting your PE or, worst case, there's a lack of confidence in your abilities. Either way, you need to find out what the deal is and go with it (studying for PE) or fix it.
Jeff Mirisola, CSWE
My Blog
Jeff Mirisola, CSWE
My Blog
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The work will not come to you simply by itself. It is a misconception of the how the real world is.
I am afraid you need to "fight" to get involved on projects. Having a job offer is just an entry ticket to the game, it is not the game itself and does not warrant that you are going to be in the game.
-You need to do small steps, take simple tasks - get them done properly and make sure it is noticed.
-Networking; you should run to get to know the others and not the other way around, you need an agenda and a plan;
How big is your organization ? get appointment with managers and introduce yourself, one by one. Ask about the forecast, their workload, etc. Take notes. Dont hesitate to break the rules: if you can take an assignment out of the normal flowchart, let this be subcontracted to you. Worse case your managment will get the message and to keep you calm, they will try and keep you sort of busy
-Do not compare to other peers to make your self assessment - there is too much cognitive distorsion in that.
-You need to prove yourself competent to make sure people will asign you new projects, the manager can push one or two times but thats it. The rest is a matter of your reputation and attitude.
-Monitor your progress against your objectives, in this case the small tasks that have been handled. How many, what impact, etc
-Do not understimate assisting others engineers on stupid things: small doors open on big rooms.
Do all of the above and do it very fast, if not your mood will start to suffer as time goes by and then it can be a vicious circle. the problem will not solve by itself. Bottom line, as someone said someone is looking at how the hours are used. At some point you may get in trouble without this being your fault, is n it ? well not ... surviving is part of the equation.
Sometimes it comes easily. Sometimes not. But if you come over it, on the long run you it will play in your advantadge.
If despite all your efforts, nothing happens within a certain time frame - say 6 months from now - change company.
"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".
I am afraid you need to "fight" to get involved on projects. Having a job offer is just an entry ticket to the game, it is not the game itself and does not warrant that you are going to be in the game.
-You need to do small steps, take simple tasks - get them done properly and make sure it is noticed.
-Networking; you should run to get to know the others and not the other way around, you need an agenda and a plan;
How big is your organization ? get appointment with managers and introduce yourself, one by one. Ask about the forecast, their workload, etc. Take notes. Dont hesitate to break the rules: if you can take an assignment out of the normal flowchart, let this be subcontracted to you. Worse case your managment will get the message and to keep you calm, they will try and keep you sort of busy
-Do not compare to other peers to make your self assessment - there is too much cognitive distorsion in that.
-You need to prove yourself competent to make sure people will asign you new projects, the manager can push one or two times but thats it. The rest is a matter of your reputation and attitude.
-Monitor your progress against your objectives, in this case the small tasks that have been handled. How many, what impact, etc
-Do not understimate assisting others engineers on stupid things: small doors open on big rooms.
Do all of the above and do it very fast, if not your mood will start to suffer as time goes by and then it can be a vicious circle. the problem will not solve by itself. Bottom line, as someone said someone is looking at how the hours are used. At some point you may get in trouble without this being your fault, is n it ? well not ... surviving is part of the equation.
Sometimes it comes easily. Sometimes not. But if you come over it, on the long run you it will play in your advantadge.
If despite all your efforts, nothing happens within a certain time frame - say 6 months from now - change company.
"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".
Do you sit and play WoW at work? There could be a pink slip coming 
Anyways, there's no way to know 'what the deal is' by your post because it's entirely one-sided (obviously) and so troubleshooting isn't effective.
You have to confront your superior or the engineers that hand out projects. They might play favorites for personal reasons that are rather unprofessional but sometimes unavoidable. Maybe it's soft skills you need to work on, or maybe it's practical skills they don't trust. Maybe it's personal hygiene, who knows? Could be anything. Go to the source.
_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5
Anyways, there's no way to know 'what the deal is' by your post because it's entirely one-sided (obviously) and so troubleshooting isn't effective.
You have to confront your superior or the engineers that hand out projects. They might play favorites for personal reasons that are rather unprofessional but sometimes unavoidable. Maybe it's soft skills you need to work on, or maybe it's practical skills they don't trust. Maybe it's personal hygiene, who knows? Could be anything. Go to the source.
_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5
I do have to say... anyone that "sit there and does nothing" is someone who would be on a quick path out the door, anywhere I've worked. If you don't have work to do, you shouldn't wait to hear the next thing coming... you actively seek out work and make the company money. Make yourself useful to the company, not just yourself. Studying for the PE Exam is a value, but it's indirect. You're not producing "billable" output.
I once worked with a drafter who only waited for work. When an engineer asked him what he'd been doing for the past couple days, since he didn't see any work to check, the drafter confessed he hadn't been given anything to do. When the engineer asked why he didn't bring this up with someone, the drafter exclaimed "Well I'm not gonna ASK for more work" as if it was a joke. His last paycheck was handed to him 10 minutes later.
_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5
I once worked with a drafter who only waited for work. When an engineer asked him what he'd been doing for the past couple days, since he didn't see any work to check, the drafter confessed he hadn't been given anything to do. When the engineer asked why he didn't bring this up with someone, the drafter exclaimed "Well I'm not gonna ASK for more work" as if it was a joke. His last paycheck was handed to him 10 minutes later.
_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5
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EmmanuelTop
Chemical
I don't think it was a draftsman's mistake that he didn't have any work. What are we paying managers for?
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
EmmanuelTop
Chemical
There is another side of the coin here. It makes me laugh each time I recall this event. Once I had a project involving a distillation column and a reboiler. The engineering contractor did not have any clue about designing reboilers and reboiler piping. My company (operator) did not have any standards or guidelines on this subject.
I searched and downloaded from the internet several articles on the subject. Then I went to the coffee room and read half of those articles there, because it was quiet. Then I called (on my personal expense) my colleague/friend who worked at an engineering company overseas at that time, and we discussed the subject over the phone for the next 30-60 minutes. He scanned and uploaded some materials at the Filedropper website which I could not open from my company PC (safety filtering). I went downstairs and paid a taxi to the nearest internet club and downloaded the files on my USB. Then I took a taxi back to the company. Somewhere half way I got a call from the engineering manager (my counter-part at that time) of our contractor, and we briefly discussed this same subject over the phone. He asked me if I can stop by their office. I went there and gave him the USB, and after printing we had looked at the documents I received and we decided to use these rules in designing the reboiler system. Finally, I reached my office around 4PM which was about one hour before everybody goes home.
After he saw me coming back, my boss came out of his office and asked: "Where have you been the whole day? It seems like you don't have any work to do, and some of the projects are way behind."
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
I searched and downloaded from the internet several articles on the subject. Then I went to the coffee room and read half of those articles there, because it was quiet. Then I called (on my personal expense) my colleague/friend who worked at an engineering company overseas at that time, and we discussed the subject over the phone for the next 30-60 minutes. He scanned and uploaded some materials at the Filedropper website which I could not open from my company PC (safety filtering). I went downstairs and paid a taxi to the nearest internet club and downloaded the files on my USB. Then I took a taxi back to the company. Somewhere half way I got a call from the engineering manager (my counter-part at that time) of our contractor, and we briefly discussed this same subject over the phone. He asked me if I can stop by their office. I went there and gave him the USB, and after printing we had looked at the documents I received and we decided to use these rules in designing the reboiler system. Finally, I reached my office around 4PM which was about one hour before everybody goes home.
After he saw me coming back, my boss came out of his office and asked: "Where have you been the whole day? It seems like you don't have any work to do, and some of the projects are way behind."
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
EmmanuelTop,
It is all about management of "visibility" in the company
From my perspective, you worked the issue effectively. And if you did not reply to your Boss after his remark and took that small hit, well I think what you did would be even more respectable.
"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".
It is all about management of "visibility" in the company
From my perspective, you worked the issue effectively. And if you did not reply to your Boss after his remark and took that small hit, well I think what you did would be even more respectable.
"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".
Are you missing deadlines when you do get projects? Have you missed a deadline before? Is there some other reason why the senior engineers would not trust you? Do you give status updates to the engineer you are assigned to when you receive a project? Maybe your fellow junior engineers have some advice for this situation. One of the engineers might have said something to them. Maybe they are asking for projects. As others have said if you aren't doing anything all day you will be the first out the door.
- Thread starter
- #11
Thanks guys for your insight.
JMirisola, hopefully that would be a last case scenario. =D
Hardworker87 definitely need to hear this.
ROTW - I think this is the correct advice I need!!
Jneiman, haha! Playing WoW would definitely destroy my career.
JMirisola, hopefully that would be a last case scenario. =D
Hardworker87 definitely need to hear this.
ROTW - I think this is the correct advice I need!!
Jneiman, haha! Playing WoW would definitely destroy my career.
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I'm exactly in your shoes. 1.5 years of structural design experience.
When I'm light on work, as others have said, make yourself useful to the company.
Update those ancient typical details, research improved workflows methods (software, spreadsheets etc), file and oragnise jobs and calculations, read these forums!.
Anything to keep the machine clicking over.
I guess it's also one downfall of being a small fish in a big pond. Luckily, I'm the fifth structural engineer and youngest by 10 years in my office of 20 people.
When I'm light on work, as others have said, make yourself useful to the company.
Update those ancient typical details, research improved workflows methods (software, spreadsheets etc), file and oragnise jobs and calculations, read these forums!.
Anything to keep the machine clicking over.
I guess it's also one downfall of being a small fish in a big pond. Luckily, I'm the fifth structural engineer and youngest by 10 years in my office of 20 people.
truckandbus
Automotive
Make sure the work that you have been assigned is complete and to a high level of quality. I've had more than one direct report come to me asking for more complex work which didn't happen because they failed to complete or provided halfassed output from their current assignments.
Once your existing work is complete, and your current supervisor has nothing elese to give you, shop yourself around to the other engineers to help out. Evenrually one or more of them will recognize you as a resource and yo can work to get permanently aligned with those people. My first boss was an excellent engineer but not a great manager and found it hard to keep me busy. The guy in the office next to him recognized this and over the course of a year I eventually ended up working for that engineer.
Once your existing work is complete, and your current supervisor has nothing elese to give you, shop yourself around to the other engineers to help out. Evenrually one or more of them will recognize you as a resource and yo can work to get permanently aligned with those people. My first boss was an excellent engineer but not a great manager and found it hard to keep me busy. The guy in the office next to him recognized this and over the course of a year I eventually ended up working for that engineer.
moltenmetal
Chemical
EmmanuelTop: it wasn't the draftsman's fault that he didn't have any work. It WAS the draftsman's fault to assume that it was not his responsibility to make people aware that he had productive time available that was not being used! That is a minimum requirement for being considered any kind of "team player" in a business environment. Good managers don't schedule the activities of their reports hour by hour, and need feedback to do their jobs properly.
You gave a good example of how you took initiative with the task you'd been given and didn't assume your job responsibilities ended at things you could accomplish only from a seated position in your cubicle- a good organization should notice and reward that kind of creative problem solving and initiative- but it is a mistake to assume that it would. That your boss didn't notice what you were doing is not surprising- what you did, though no doubt important, probably wasn't even on their radar. Was it the best way to use your time that particular day? Your boss would probably have a fuller appreciation of that than you would, and the only way you'd know about that is to talk with them.
Playswow: we have no idea why you are being sidelined and ignored, but if you are honest with yourself, you probably have some ideas that you are either in denial about or not sharing with us. However, communication with words is invariably much more reliable than assumption and is always recommended. Go talk to your boss and ask for the boss to level with you. Take them out for lunch and ask for the whole truth. You may not get it, but you will put many assumptions to rest. Just be prepared for an answer which doesn't make you happy.
You gave a good example of how you took initiative with the task you'd been given and didn't assume your job responsibilities ended at things you could accomplish only from a seated position in your cubicle- a good organization should notice and reward that kind of creative problem solving and initiative- but it is a mistake to assume that it would. That your boss didn't notice what you were doing is not surprising- what you did, though no doubt important, probably wasn't even on their radar. Was it the best way to use your time that particular day? Your boss would probably have a fuller appreciation of that than you would, and the only way you'd know about that is to talk with them.
Playswow: we have no idea why you are being sidelined and ignored, but if you are honest with yourself, you probably have some ideas that you are either in denial about or not sharing with us. However, communication with words is invariably much more reliable than assumption and is always recommended. Go talk to your boss and ask for the boss to level with you. Take them out for lunch and ask for the whole truth. You may not get it, but you will put many assumptions to rest. Just be prepared for an answer which doesn't make you happy.
EmmanuelTop
Chemical
moltenmetal,
People are different. What you or I would do in a certain situation doesn't make it a rule. While it is obvious that the draftsman in this particular story is not the hardest-ever-working person you could imagine in the world, I believe it is an organizational problem if weeks can pass and a person doesn't have any work, and it all goes unnoticed (I can hardly imagine that the others in the same office were killing themselves out of work in the same period - this also needs to be accounted for).
It is not the draftsman who organizes the engineering work, not even in his own domain (CAD). Resource planning, management, and resource-loaded scheduling - all this is the job and the responsibility of the Department manager or Project manager, whichever applicable in this particular case. While the draftsman could easily ask around if he can give a hand to the others - which would be a positive thing - not doing so doesn't make him the bad guy. If I would wonder around the office each day and keep asking is there anything for me to do, I'd say that my manager is not doing his job, or that the company has too many employees who are not really needed.
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
People are different. What you or I would do in a certain situation doesn't make it a rule. While it is obvious that the draftsman in this particular story is not the hardest-ever-working person you could imagine in the world, I believe it is an organizational problem if weeks can pass and a person doesn't have any work, and it all goes unnoticed (I can hardly imagine that the others in the same office were killing themselves out of work in the same period - this also needs to be accounted for).
It is not the draftsman who organizes the engineering work, not even in his own domain (CAD). Resource planning, management, and resource-loaded scheduling - all this is the job and the responsibility of the Department manager or Project manager, whichever applicable in this particular case. While the draftsman could easily ask around if he can give a hand to the others - which would be a positive thing - not doing so doesn't make him the bad guy. If I would wonder around the office each day and keep asking is there anything for me to do, I'd say that my manager is not doing his job, or that the company has too many employees who are not really needed.
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
EmmanuelTop
Chemical
rotw was absolutely correct about the "management of visibility" in many companies nowadays. Unless you are seen by your PC, or attending meetings, or walking around with bunch of papers, you are automatically assumed as a lazy person who probably doesn't do much, if anything at all. I have seen and witnessed this too often.
In some remote companies/plants where I worked, doing the job was what matters. You could hang upside down from the ceiling if you want or work remotely from the local bar, it doesn't matter as long as you perform. The philosophy was result-based, not "appearance"-based. We are flooded with incompetent managers everywhere nowadays, and all they seem to do is taking credits for the job well done by the employees, or blaming employees when themselves haven't done what they were supposed to do, but they were "visible" sitting in their offices or attending meetings.
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
In some remote companies/plants where I worked, doing the job was what matters. You could hang upside down from the ceiling if you want or work remotely from the local bar, it doesn't matter as long as you perform. The philosophy was result-based, not "appearance"-based. We are flooded with incompetent managers everywhere nowadays, and all they seem to do is taking credits for the job well done by the employees, or blaming employees when themselves haven't done what they were supposed to do, but they were "visible" sitting in their offices or attending meetings.
Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE
Kinda scary. But working there for more than a year, sure you can asses what is really happening and what went wrong.
Did you do well in previous tasks that was given to you or not?
If not, maybe they have the impression that you can't handle the work on your own, or you can't lead a project, maybe something like that. You have to ask yourself before it is too late.
However, if you did a great job previously, then I don't see any reason that you are in your situation right now. You should be overloaded with work at the moment and won't have time to ask bunch of strangers in this forum to give you advice on some work issues.
Just some thoughts to ponder, as most of good advice were already given above.
Good luck to you and to your upcoming endeavors.
Did you do well in previous tasks that was given to you or not?
If not, maybe they have the impression that you can't handle the work on your own, or you can't lead a project, maybe something like that. You have to ask yourself before it is too late.
However, if you did a great job previously, then I don't see any reason that you are in your situation right now. You should be overloaded with work at the moment and won't have time to ask bunch of strangers in this forum to give you advice on some work issues.
Just some thoughts to ponder, as most of good advice were already given above.
Good luck to you and to your upcoming endeavors.
SkipVought
Aerospace
Discover and create ways to make yourself relevant and indispensable.
Find a hole in the process. Listen to the gripes that relate to issues within your reach and then find solutions.
Become a problem solver. It's a mindset!
Try to get the big picture. In big companies there grow many little fiefdoms. They usually work against the good of the total process.
Skip,
![[glasses]](/data/assets/smilies/glasses.gif "[glasses] [glasses]")
Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!![[tongue]](/data/assets/smilies/tongue.gif "[tongue] [tongue]")
Find a hole in the process. Listen to the gripes that relate to issues within your reach and then find solutions.
Become a problem solver. It's a mindset!
Try to get the big picture. In big companies there grow many little fiefdoms. They usually work against the good of the total process.
Skip,
Just traded in my OLD subtlety...for a NUance!
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