Am I gaining the right type of experience to move forward as an ME? 2

[ReelGuy]

Hello everyone,

It's hard for me not to be concerned that the position I have now might not be one that is adequately preparing me for the experience I may need to really move forward in the M.E. world. The main thing is that I really just don't know so I thought the best thing to do is ask.

I've been with the company (Coxreels) for about a year. Basically, they design industrial reels for cabling, hoses, and such. My position here is "Design Engineer". The other design engineer does not have a mechanical engineering degree as I do. My position requires me to use 3D CAD all day to design parts and reels. We are each in charge of our individual projects and take them from the concept stage until they are released to marketing. Most of my work has me designing all day with little to no mathematics. If anything, a little geometry is involved, though rare. Not only do I design the parts but also I make the prints and work with production to ensure that the end product is feasible.

My concern is because this feels like it is far removed from what I learned in school. Am I gaining experience that will help me move up easily, say, in another 4-5 years? The pay here is decent and the people are great but I don't plan on being here forever.

Any tips/advice for me?

Thanks.

 

[KENAT]

What country are you in?

In the UK I did pretty similar (except aerospace/defense) I moved up no problems and still got to be called an Engineer.

From what I understand in the US there is much more discrimination against differentiation between Designers and Engineers so what you are doing may not be typical.

One thing you don't say, do you enjoy what you are doing?

 

[TDAA]

If you are going to persue a PE, then your work should be performed under one. I can't really say about the type of work.

 

[nate2003]

I have a mechanical engineering degree with 6 years experience as a manufacturing engineer. I do CNC programming, purchasing justifications, etc. That's the extent of the math. I also order tooling, do ISO audits, 6S audits, make work instructions, etc., but little "hard core" engineering. I subscribe to magazines at work for the sole reason of solving the puzzles in the back. This grates because I loved dynamics, physics, calculus, etc. However, I make $60K in a little po-dunk town in Wisconsin, I have flexible hours, and with a 10 min. drive I can be home and out of sight/sound of traffic or houses. I am in the process of getting a new job as an application engineer designing cooling systems for tractors, but with existing technology, so the math will be minimal, along with the heat transfer calcs.

I think there are a lot of misled engineering students out there and I was one of them, thinking that we would do a lot of difficult "engineering". We learned in school to select exotic materials and design things for optimum strength, etc. In the real world though, decisions are made for other reasons many times. For example, for all the alloys out there, we use 4140, 1018, and 6061T6 alum., because that's what we have on hand. We design around common hardware, materials, etc. Every design gets the same bearing, uses the same size dowel pins, the same alloys, etc. for cost and convenience. Our design engineers (drafters with 20 yrs experience) couldn't calculate the area of a circle, but design tools to work on the F-35 Joint strike fighter.

I guess I'm saying at least from my experience, people's roles and job descriptions are changing, so unless you are into some cutting edge technology you will probably end up modifying previous designs, or becoming a production manager and performing housekeeping audits and whatever else the flavor of the day business plan/goals are.

The degree gets you the engineering title and job, then you have to struggle to stay out of a management position and look for opportunities to keep yourself challenged.

"I have had my results for a long time, but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them." Karl Friedrich Gauss

 

[Twoballcane]

ReelGuy,

Well if you are right out of college, this is a good start. Designing is what lacks in college, but that is not the extent of what an ME does. If you want to get into stuff that you did in college, the job you want is Mechanical Analysis Engineer. But this is a long road to travel. First you have to see if work like this is in your area. Most big companies, especially defense, hire these types (which I am one). You have to start somewhere, in your job you can start analyzing your stuff. In reels, you can probably do dynamic (vibration / shock) and static analysis and this may translate to stress and strain on certain parts. Even though the part does not need it, just do the analysis and you will have more insight than the next designer. After doing some of the analysis, start going after analysis work in other companies and show what you have done, hey may be you will carve out a niche for your self as reel analysis specialist. If you land an analysis job, you will use the knowledge you learned in college to job at hand.

Good luck!


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[ReelGuy]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

As it turns out, I'm doing what I originally thought I would be doing when I got into mechanical engineering. My favorite part of the process was design work and I was fairly disapointed with the small amount of it that was touched upon in school.

The reason for the question in the original post is when I look around at what many ME jobs offer (as far as money) they're offering a lot more than I'm making and of course asking for a few years experience. I'm just hoping that I can eventually say, "Yes, I have the experience you're looking for." while doing what I'm doing.

Even though I have a BS in ME, will I be more likely to find positions that are looking for the type of experience I'm gaining under another label, such as "Design Engineer?"

Thanks for the above advice and any more is great.

 

[ReelGuy]

And yes, I enjoy my work and the people I work with.

 

[KENAT]

If you are thinking you want to get your PE in ME then you may not be doing quite the work required.

I belive in CA at least that time spent drafting may not count toward your PE so you may want to check that out.

Do the jobs you're looking at ask for PE, if so you may want to check out the PE rules for the state you're in.

 

[IRstuff]

Nate2003 and ReelGuy,

ME can be more mathematically challenging if that's what you want. One of the problems that people like you have is that certain jobs are tagged as "engineering" when they're not really about engineering. Here's the definition as used in the California Professional Engineer's Act:

6701. "Professional engineer," within the meaning and intent of this act, refers to a person engaged in the professional practice of rendering service or creative work requiring education, training and experience in engineering sciences and the application of special knowledge of the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences in such professional or creative work as consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning or design of public or private utilities, structures, machines, processes, circuits, buildings, equipment or projects, and supervision of construction for the purpose of securing compliance with specifications and design for any such work.

Obviously, a rather wide gamut exists. However, not all MEs are pushing paper. There are still plenty of MEs worrying stress-strain curves and strength of materials. There are others deeply involved in thermal analysis and design, etc.



TTFN

 

[Beggar]

Even though the part does not need it, just do the analysis and you will have more insight than the next designer.

While I agree with the intent, be careful in how you might follow this advice. Specifically, it better be on your own time and this better be clear to everybody. Otherwise you're likely to be dinged for wasting time and money on un-needed activities.

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http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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[Twoballcane]

I understand your concern, but design and analysis kind of go hand in hand. How can you do a design with out the analysis? It is scary that somebody put a mechanical design together without really knowing the physical aspects at least a back of an envelope spot check. The problems that you want to catch are the unexpected ones. If you do spot checks on stuff that looks ok can scare out issues before qualification.

For Reelguy, his /her skills are being underutilized and that is his / her concern. To break out of the “designer” mold, you may have to skate on the edge on what you “want” to do instead of what you have to do. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.

I was in your same situation, but I worked for a defense company. I was basically designing and the analysis guys gave my stuff the green light. I started to do my own analysis before I would meet with the analysis guys and they were impressed. Two years of doing this I finally jumped the fence and now doing the analysis. You will use a lot of your theoretical knowledge to solve problems that the designers did not pick up on.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[cjme]

Sorry to bump an older thread, but I was considering posting this exact same topic and I stumbled across this post.

I work for a "machine design" company, and most of our projects are for steel mills & pipe mills. Everyone in the Engineering department, whether they are an engineer or not, does the designing using Inventor. I've only been here for 4 months out of school, but I have rarely seen much of an analysis done on any of the projects. I guess the problem is I kind of enjoyed doing that type of analysis in school.

The problem here is that the managers are of a "build it heavy enough so that it doesn't break" kind of mentality, but I don't see the engineering value in that attitude.

Twoballcane, I know this is an extremely vague question, but do you have any tips to help me do my own analysis? The one time I tried to do FEA I got shot down by the manager. For example, I've been working on a conveyer system for a pipe mill (but the head engineer here did most of the designing for it)

 

[wes616]

4 MONTHS OUT OF SCHOOL.

Wait a while before you change the system.

There is another important engineering course you may have forgotten. Engineering Economics: Time = $$ and sometimes material comes cheap!

Enjoy your job while you are at it. If you don't enjoy it, feel free to find another one... thats the beauty of living in a free society.

Good luck dude!

Wes C.
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Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

[GregLocock]

cjme, do it their way, for the time being. When you see an idea you really hate, work on that in parallel, and present both versions to your boss.

The thing with plant installations is that if you use a 6 x3x.375 C section, where engineering analysis tells you that a 4x2x.25 is adequate, when somebody drives a forklift into it, then the 6x3 is a better bet. And if the facility gets upgraded, the 6x3 is a better bet. And if the conveyor has to be modified with lots of extra holes, the 6x3 is a better bet.


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

I worked in aerospace/defense and in non critical areas we'd often eyeball it. That eyeballing would then get signed off by the stress engineer and a couple other guys, they were pretty good at judging if something was OK without running detailed calcs or analysis.

In more critical areas or if we had a concern then we’d to calcs, FEA, test to destruction etc.

A lot of the time it isn’t worth spending the time/effort on analysis, much as I kind of hate to admit it. Especially if it’s in a situation where ‘overengineering’ it isn’t a problem or where it’s not really structural.

That said I’ve had the opposite, at my new place one of the designers here spotted something was held on with fairly small screws. The project lead didn’t seem to want to hear it when the designer mentioned this concern, trying to brush him off saying something like I’ll be interested to see your numbers. I did some simple calcs and found the screws were marginal to say the least. I did some further analysis and found the brackets to it needed strengthening too. Got some satisfaction from that.