Ammonia as Auto Fuel?

[owg]

I have read a few pros and cons around the web on ammonia as an automotive fuel. I suppose it presents an opportunity to use natural gas at a "large point source" to make ammonia and capture and sequester the CO2. The ammonia can then be used as an automotive fuel. With natural gas cost perhaps remaining low, maybe ammonia's time has come. Perhaps the nitrogen oxides from the fuel combustion can be handled by current NO technology. Any opinions?

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[BigInch]

I think shale gas will end speculation on ammonia derived fuel.

Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone. - Pablo Picasso

 

[owg]

I thought shale gas would be a plus for ammonia fuel, low cost methane to the hydrogen reformer on the way to ammonia, with the carbon being collected at the plant site. Don't get me wrong, I am in the oil business but this looks interesting.

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[moltenmetal]

Ammonia is WAY too toxic- even as a refrigerant it was bad news. Way more dangerous than LNG in my opinion, as dangerous as LNG can be.

LNG and even CNG have a future for sure, unless NIMBYism kills shale gas. Both make way more sense than wasting so much of the source fuel (by means of gas-methanol or F-T etc.) to convert it to a pour-in gasoline or diesel replacement.

 

[BigInch]

I saw this from my office window (Fluor) about 2 miles away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OR7A5jWmDs.

Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone. - Pablo Picasso

 

[owg]

I realize a lot of energy is wasted in the reforming, but it does allow the carbon to be collected as carbon dioxide and sequestered. And I know ammonia is dangerous as are most fuels. Thanks for the information and opinions.

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[cranky108]

The little I know of flame engineering, tells me that the NOx problem with ammonia would be increased. But I am assuming you intend to burn it.
But given the reforming process, the SOx problem would be small or nonexistent.

I know ammonia is hydrophelic, but does that make it mixable with hydrocarbons, like ethonol?

 

[owg]

cranky108 - I doubt whether ammonia could be mixed with gasoline. That is a good negative point in that it would be "all or nothing" for cars unlike alcohol which can be blended in to some degree. And as you suggest the NOx problem could be more severe than with our old friend gasoline.

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[cranky108]

Ammonia, as I said is hydrophelic (sp?) and will burn if you get it on your skin (unlike gasoline, which just smells).
But ammonia will also pollute streams until it well deluted, like gasoline.

Many farm coop now have ammonia in pressure tanks, which leads me to think it could be a hazzard in am accedent (other than the flameability issue).

 

[berkshire]

I used to work at a plant that had annhydrous ammonia in a pressure tank.
There were several things that got my attention about that installation. The first was the large windsock on a pole alongside the tank. and the second was the notice in red letters 6" high explaining where not to be if it ever leaked.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[evelrod]

BE, I can relate directly to what you post. While doing some structural changes in an ice cream plant I noticed a great yellow line painted on the floor of the ammonia storage/pump area. Asking about it I was told it was the "life line". Anyone not on the right side of the line would not survive/ make it to 'open air' if a major leak or failure of the storage facility occurred. Sorry, not a big fan of ammonia as fuel at this point.

Rod