Another QW-322 Interpretation Question 4

[t4runner1987]

Gents,

Supporting interpretation first.

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Question : “What is the definition of the word “process” as it is used in QW-322?”

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ASME Reply : “The word “process” refers to those welding processes for which welding [highlight #FCE94F]variables[/highlight] have been established in QW-350 and QW-360.

Am I wrong in interpreting ASME Sec. IX this way? It’s about welders maintaining continuity.

Currently, I see it as if a welder qualifies with separate p numbers out side of the QW-400 base metal groupings and alternate base metal groupings), that the welder is to weld using the method and materials of which he qualified at least every 6 months. So if a welder qualified using a WPS with p number 66 and then did another qual with p number 8. He needs to weld a p66 and a p8 material within 6 months’ time to maintain his qual.

This is strictly about maintaining continuity. I know about QW-420 and renew of any material and any position.

Does ASME Sec IX specifically say Process is the term for which how the welding method (GTAW,SMAW,etc) is applied?

How others read it. It seems that people read the ASME interpretation and assume that the (QW-350) variables are not applied to the term process for which ASME specifically references. I understand that these circumstances are very rare, especially considering the fact that the groupings are so commonly used throughout our industry. Our welders and our contractors weld some exotic metals (zirconium, tantalum ,CuNi) often. One thing is for certain and this is my personal opinion, but a P1-P15 welder that hasn’t seen zirconium in years will have some troubleshooting to do.

I know there are many questions regarding this but none have referenced the 1983 ASME Sec. IX (interpretation number IX-83-58) interpretation as this (to me) definitely defines the term process that includes the variables established in QW-350 and QW-360.

Thanks for you time guys. Any reply is appreciated.

 

[david339933]

Continuity only needs to be maintained for each process(GMAW,SMAW,GTAW etc.), not for each WPS, electrode type, base metal, or any other variable.
Go to ASME interpretations and check out QW-322.

 

[t4runner1987]

Again, your assuming the term Process is only related to the method of how its applied. Where does section 9 define process as only a method and not a process with related variables. The interpretation clearly states "for which welding variables have been established. I can copy and paste QW-322, it still doesn't answer or clarify your statement.

 

[t4runner1987]

good place to go for anyone looking for interpretations

https://cstools.asme.org/Interpretation/SearchInterpretation.cfm

 

[DVWE]

t4runner,

I get what you're saying, and your own example of a welder qualified with P66 and P8 is a good one.

The way I see it, there are a couple of ways to approach your concern.

#1 - QW-322.1(b) applies here. If your welder qualified on P66 two years ago, and has since welded on P8 daily since his qualification, the time lapse on P66 is specific enough reason to question the welders ability; his P8 qualification hardly carries the P66 continuity. This does not affect any of his other qualifications.

#2 - Keep in mind that the requirements of ASME IX are the minimum. If you want specifics like your example, spell in out in your company's Quality manual.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

 

[DekDee]

David is correct and you are misinterpreting the interpretation.
If welding variables have been established (QW 352 to QW 357) then they are recognised "processes" for welder qualification.
If welding variables have not been established then it is not a recognised "process" for welder qualification.

ASME IX lists minimum requirements.
If you want to let a P1 qualified welder weld zirconium it is your choice.
But you are ultimately responsible for the quality of your welders work so you can decide how they are qualified.

 

[david339933]

Give this a read....
The white paper.

Link

 

[t4runner1987]

Thanks for you help guys. Totally unrelated but the P number for our zirc is P61, not 66. Sorry about that.

I believe for now, thats all we have DVWE. I have submitted an ASME Sec IX interpretation request. Now for the 6-12 month wait.

Dekdee, in response to your first statement. That's exactly how I see it. If the variables are recognized (QW-352) and are a part of that process, when changing a variable within those processes....how is that not a process change?

Second statement. It is not our choice to allow a P1 qualified welder to weld P61. It is required to qualify that welder to P61 to weld P61. We are ultimately responsible for our welders quality, but it is tasking trying to convince several (inexperienced) engineers with ASME Sec 9 grey areas, when making procedure changes.

The facility I work at is very dated and we are currently establishing revisions to our procedures and manuals. Thanks for your time and responses.

Thanks for link david339933. Giving this a read now.

 

[david339933]

In particular pg 8...last paragraph.

 

[DVWE]

I have submitted an ASME Sec IX interpretation request. Now for the 6-12 month wait.

Good luck to you. I have a feeling you will not like their response, much like you don't like the responses you've already been given, but you never know. Please keep us posted.

but it is tasking trying to convince several (inexperienced) engineers with ASME Sec 9 grey areas

You realize you're calling the kettle black here, right? There is no grey area other than in your own inexperienced view.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

 

[CWEng]

The base metal and filler metal type have no bearing on the continuity for performance qualification. See the follwoing interpretation:

Standard Designation: BPV Section IX
Edition/Addenda:
Para./Fig./Table No:
Subject Description: Section IX, QW-322
Date Issued: 05/03/1984
Record Number: BC84-055
Interpretation Number : IX-83-113
Question(s) and Reply(ies):

Question: A welder is presently qualified for a given WPS to perform GTAW of P-No. 1 to P-No. 1 pipe using an F-No. 6, A-No. 1, SFA-5.18, AWS Classification ER-70S-2 filler metal. The welder is also qualified for another WPS to perform GTAW of P-No. 8 to P-No. 8 pipe using an F-No. 6, A-No. 8, SFA-5.9, AWS Classification ER-308 filler metal. All other essential variables are the same. The welder has maintained his qualification with the GTAW process using the ER-70S-2 filler metal on P-No. 1 base metals. The welder has not used the P-No. 8 to P-No. 8 WPS for more than 6 months. Is the welder required to renew his qualification prior to using the GTAW, P-No.8 to P-No.8 WPS?

Reply: No.

 

[weldstan]

While your welder may be current to weld Zr, if he/she has not welded Zr for a long priod of time, it may be prudent to have him requalify on Zr. While the cost of qualifying on Zr is high, repairs or scrapped parts will be considerably higher.