Application help needed for new lubricant type 2

[Demon3]

Hello All,

Normally I post in the polymers / plastics areas and I am a chemist by training. Recently we discovered a very effective lubricant by accident. We have done testing of it compared to Royal Purple, a leading lubricant, and our new lubricant is at least as good. The testing was done on a Falex Film Strength test machine and repeated several times.

The new lubricant is not a modification of an existing base stock, it is a totally novel chemistry not on the market presently. My problem is that I am not a lubricants expert so I would like advice on what other testing I would have to do to convince an expert of the performance of the new lubricant. Furthermore, I am hoping that an expert here can look at the attributes of the stuff and see an application where those attributes would give the material a place in the market. Here are some of the properties:

1. It's a pure chemical i.e. 100% synthetic so not cheap
2. It is non-volatile
3. Colorless
4. Thermally stable to 250C by TGA in air
5. Polar (soluble in solvents and water, immiscible with hydrocarbon oil)

It seems to me that because of the relatively high production cost we may need to find an application where the unusual water solublity is a plus. Any thoughts??


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[patprimmer]

Cutting fluids for machining metals

Additives to water reticulation systems such as automotive cooling systems in order to lubricate the pumps.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers

 

[Demon3]

Thanks for your input Pat. I hadn't realised that you were active in this forum too! I did a Google books search last night and some info about cutting fluids came up. I remember using those when I was in short pants in the metalwork class years ago. I will see if we can get that tested somewhere around here.

I am grateful for all ideas. I hope we can spot a so-called "killer-app" for this new material. I think if we get it tested it will prove to be very safe, i.e. probably safe to eat. I wonder if that would open up new application fields. I imagine there must be some kinds of machine where you want to hose it down with water every day and wash away all dirt and lubricant for hygenic reasons then reapply it for the next shift.


Chris DeArmitt

 

[drwebb]

Viscosity determines lubricant application. What is it's high and low temperature viscosity? Can the stuff function as an additive (i.e. in a PAG basestock), or does it have to be used neat? For an industrial application you will have to get some pricey gear testing done (i.e. FZG) to garner much credibility.

There might be an opportunity for a food-grade EP agent, but normally you don't want the lubricant washing off the machinery since food products are mostly water-based. NSF handles registrations for food grade lubricant ingredients. If it's new chemistry you have little time left to get it REACH preregistered or you will have to prove up front that it is safe to sell significant quantities in EU.

 

[Demon3]

I will have the viscosity versus shear rate measured on our rheometer in the next week and likewise a viscosity versus temperature sweep. The viscosity seems similar to other oils. We tested it as an additive to a standard bearing oil and that worked very well. Strangely, we have a family of structurally related chemicals and none of those showed any lubricant effect even though those are oils too.

REACH preregistration is for chemicals presently EINECS listed and used in the EU at over 1 ton per annum. This new additive does not qualify. It would be registered later if demand justified it. Unlike 99.9% of chemicals, this is a totally new substance and cannot be preregistered.


Chris DeArmitt

 

[drwebb]

"Strangely, we have a family of structurally related chemicals and none of those showed any lubricant effect even though those are oils too."

Do you mean anti-wear or extreme pressure properties? These can be imparted from <1% components, so reassure yourself that it is the bulk chemical that is active and not an impurity or minor component.

 

[Demon3]

We tested them all in that Falex machine for film strength. I can easily imagine that impurities can have an effect, especially if they are surface active and adsorb to the metal. These compounds are rather pure so I am fairly convinced that it's not down to impurities.

The top performing of our chemicals had a film strength so high you could add more than the nominal maximum weight load and the lubricant film layer was retained. We got dramatically less wear with additive there as well but we have not run any long term tests yet.


Chris DeArmitt

 

[drwebb]

The Falex test is often used to determine so-called film strength. It operates completely in the boundary-lubrication regime, so films are EP/AW chemisorbed 'films', not to be confused with fluid films formed in lubrication under higher-speed/lower load dynamic or hydrodynamic regimes. Such chemisorbed films are amenable to surface chemical analysis methods. If your NCE contains P, S or halogens then fairly well-understood tribological chemistry is likely occurring. If the surface chemistry is unusual then you may have something exciting on your hands.

Engine oils do not require EP properties, and if your product is not oil soluble anyway then the RP product may not be a valid benchmark. There are already a number of oil soluble EP additives that can beat the Falex test. Patprimmer's suggestion to focus on soluble cutting fluids is on target.

 

[Demon3]

Thanks for the input. I agree completely. We do not have any P, S or halogens in the material and so I am surprised at the results we are seeing. I would not have expected the material to be surface active. Now I need to see if I can locate a company to work with on the cutting fluids idea. That could be tricky as most companies see new things as a threat, not an opportunity.


Chris DeArmitt

 

[romke]

to start with you should get viscosity vs temperature and viscosity vs shearrate data. that information would give a clue as for what applications it might be useful in such a way that a suitable hydrodynamic lubricant film may be expected. the second type of information relates to ilm strength when under boundary lubrication conditions, the falex, timken ok and shell four ball test are test that can be run at relative low cost. the fzg rating would also provide useful info, but is far more expensive to run. given the fact that it is not miscible with mineral oil, you should direct your attention to those applications where mineral oils usually fail - that is at high or low temperature or in the presence of substances that easily dissolve in mineral oil. the fact that your product is very polar is a good thing: to build up a lubricant film the lubricant should both have a suitable viscosity and adhere well ("wet") to the surfaces that you want to separate.

some applications require a product to be nontoxic or biodegradable, this might open another window of opportunity. nontoxic lubricants are for example used in the foodprocessing industry where incidental contact of lubricants cannot always be avoided.

 

[Bribyk]

How about some type of mold release application where the oil needs to be easily washed off. Or, perhaps, an oil/gas well drilling or workover fluid, seeing as it's environmentally friendly and miscible with water.

It may be too expensive for these types of applications but you may find one that fits.

 

[patprimmer]

I it is food and medically safe, how does it taste. How well does it work when highly diluted in water.

Jell caps might be an application for release from moulds or from filling or printing machines.

I think Pfizer are the main player.

A mould release that dos not interfere with painting, plating or adhesion might be of interest if it can do those.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers

 

[Demon3]

Hi Pat,

Well, just for you, I tasted some and it has no taste (as expected based on what the chemical composition is). I am 99% sure it would be safe if tested and we are going to do that testing quite soon. We'll look to see if it is lubricious when diluted in water.

Cheers,

Chris


Chris DeArmitt

 

[drwebb]

What is the significance of extreme pressure properties for mold release agents?

 

[Bribyk]

How about lubricating potable water pumps?

 

[patprimmer]

Drwebb

Probably not a lot, but you don't always need to exploit all good properties to find an application. My question is based on the possibility that it might still lubricate well when heavily diluted and therefore at a greatly reduced cost.

The ability to easily wash off in water was the interesting property I as considering.

Mould release is traditionally stearate based. I have no idea what the extreme pressure properties of stearates are. More difficult to release moulds often require a silicon based release, but these tend to interfere with paint ability and electrical poperties.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers

 

[Demon3]

Hi Pat,

You make an excellent point. When I worked at BASF customers had problems with stearate mold release because it volatilises in the mold and blocks the vents so you have to stop molding to clean them regularly. A non-volatile, temperature stable mold release is just the ticket. We will run some trials to see how it works.


Chris DeArmitt