Architect acting as a structural engr and doing extremely poor job

[MtnManBob]

I was asked to take over a project because the architect refused or was unable to provide enough detail to produce bar joist shops. I've just scratched the surface but already have found columns that are at 200% of allowable stress and the specifying of a 26 ga roof panel with no published diaphragm values. The panel is produced by Metal Sales, was originally a wall panel, had one test performed in a diaphragm configuration in 2006 and even using those values the diaphragm is at 350% of allowable. I feel I have no choice but to send a letter to the State Board of Licensure (this is in Colorado) informing them of this. I don't know if this guy has designed any other commercial buildings but the idea scares the hell out of me. This is the first time I've ever had to do this. Any suggestions re: language I should use?

 

[Ron]

MMB...in many states (mine included), Architects are allowed to practice limited engineering, including some structural. It stands to reason; however, that even when allowed it must be done competently. It sounds like you have reason to be concerned and you have an obvious public duty....just be sure you're right.

Go through everything structural in the plans with the intent to document and reference each of your reasons. I would suggest that you make a table of design defects, cite the appropriate code provision for each and explain why your analysis shows a breach of acceptable practice.

Remember that many structural mistakes never get brought to light because the structures rarely are stressed to code levels. Every deficiency in structural design requires that the construction approach perfection...which we all know will not happen...and even then failure can occur if the breach is egregious enough.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Ron is right and be prepared to be "grilled". You may have to face the architect at a Board meeting and explain the problems - which I believe you should do.

Some architects are competent in engineering - most not so much.

AND my favorite is Illinois. I can't so much as design a simple I-beam w/o an SE license but ANY architect can. Go figure. And I live about 30 miles from Illinois - I am sure the laws of physics and engineering change when you cross the Mighty Mississippi!!

 

[msquared48]

If you have a Colorado licensed Professional Engineering associate (concentrating in structures) that could review the documents independently and offer his comments, this would help your credibility immensely.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

M^2 -

Good idea

 

[woodman88]

One question I have is how are you going to be paid to do this? As I would assume that you will not get paid for this I would pick out the two or three of the major items of concern to do the calculations on. Noting that there are possibly other areas that need to be properly reviewed. Rather than going through the full set of plans/calculations for the building. This way you have addressed you concern for the structure and have to answer for only those items you have actually checked.
But it may be best to talk to a lawyer (if you can find a good one) first.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[MtnManBob]

Thanks guys. All good suggestions. I didn't expect this to be fun. I'm not getting paid to review his design. I'm comparing my results to what's on his plans. Ron's right in that it is an obvious public duty.

So far the roof joists and beams are oversized. The roof diaphragm, the columns and masonry walls are under designed. So if enough sky hooks and wall braces are used everything should be fine.

 

[brandonbw]

That is a very sad to hear there is that much trouble to prove an incompetent person is doing possible deadly work.

MiketheEngineer: The problem is that you should have just become a computer science programmer so you can call yourself an Architect and Engineer all in one title and everything will be okay. I think I can actually make a proof of that.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Actually I am a computer programmer and have the credentials to prove it - but an architect - I am not. Also I am an engineer.

I wish they made Gerananimals for men so I could dress myself appropriately..... or least good enough so that my wife doesn't laugh at me.

That's why I never ever even got close to becoming an architect!!!

As I tell my wife - "I don't do colors" - "You pick it out and I will paint it" - "BUT never ever ask me if it looks good - because I REALLY don't know!!"

 

[brandonbw]

That was geared towards all the programmers I know calling themselves Engineers and Architects but are Computer Science majors.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[Ron]

brandonbw...some states have stopped Microsoft from using the term "Engineer" for those who are certified to work on computer systems. Hopefully all will.

 

[casseopeia]

I wish they would stop using the term Architect as well.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[MacGyverS2000]

This subject always amuses me... my degrees all have "engineering" in their verbiage, yet I have to pass a test that doesn't relate to my engineering work before I can call myself an engineer. Dumb.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[abusementpark]

Some architects are competent in engineering - most not so much.

I haven't met one yet. There may be some who understand the big picture stuff pretty well. But there is more to structures than member sizing.

 

[Ron]

MMB....one other comment. If an architect provides engineering services, even if allowed by your state law, that architect must meet the standard of care of ENGINEERS for that service. He is not going to be judged by an architectural standard of care (which is often lower than for engineers).

abusementpark...same here