Architect calling for extended coverage sidewall sprinkler having 26'-3" "throw". 1

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I looked and couldn't find anything but before I tell someone "can't be done" I want to double check here.

I did check Tyco, Viking and Reliable and the best I could come up with was Vikings QR VK630 (k8.0) horizontal sidewall which allows a 26'-0" "throw".

26'-3" wall to far wall "throw".

It's for a motel room designed per NFPA #13.

If anyone knows of a sidewall with a throw > 26' one I'll give em a star.

 

[cdafd]

What are the room dimensions??
What is the distantnce to the other wall?

 

[cdafd]

http://www.reliablesprinkler.com/si...nt/files/pdfs/product_solutions/dh56&dh80.pdf

Some reason not to install two heads in the room??

Besides cost

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Somehow I missed that reliable head. Let me look at it when I get home.

12' wide x 26'-4" throw (dimensions are drywall to drywall).

Smooth, flat non combustible ceiling which is concrete flexi-core or pre-stressed planks. Must have 26'-4" throw.

Does anyone besides Reliable have such a head having a 28' throw?

 

[skdesigner]

Viking makes a 28' model as well (

http://www.vikinggroupinc.com/databook/sprinklers/standard/qr/excov/081911.pdf)

- but a word of caution: 28' isn't the throw, it's the width (max throw is 14' for both the Viking and Reliable sprinks). One of these would probably work in your situation (long, narrow room), but you'd still have to pipe to the middle of the long wall and spray across the room, and once you factor in the extra cost of the special sprinkler (and the effect the starting pressure may have on pipe sizing) it would probably almost be more economical to install two cheaper 1/2" res sidewalls spaced for 14x14.

R M Arsenault Engineering Inc.

http://www.rmae.ca

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

It's actually worse than what I thought.

We actually have a room that would require a 29'-6" throw and other that would take a 27'-2" throw.

As marked the red sidewalls are where we would want them in a perfect world with the green marking where they really have to go.

I don't know how we would run in th masonry wall and as far as the 3 5/8" metal stud walls with a two layers of 5/8 drywall I don't like because we cut the metal studs and then you have to put up a layer, or is it two layers, of 5/8" drywall so we don't have a through penetration. To be sure as far as fire stopping the studs so we don't have a through penetration would require input from the project architect.

Reason I am asking questions on something I already know, or should know, the answer to is this isn't the first motel of its kind to go up. Chains have prototype drawings and I find it hard to believe I am the first one to be faced with something like this. It gnaws at me there has to be an "easy way" but I can't see it.

No, I do not have the project yet I just got the drawings this morning for bid next week so right now is the right time to ask the right questions.

 

[cdafd]

Some reason maybe go to a ceiling head??

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

cdafd, Flexicore is hollow concrete planks.

Except for the entry and vestibule what you see is a textured finish applied directly to the surface. No place to run to.

 

[cdafd]

Oh
Guess will be interesting to see how the other bidders do it?

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I've got a few days yet to get an RFI in.

Thing that really bothers me is this is a well known higher end chain motel and this can't be the first one they built with a footprint that looks like this. How did others before me do it?

 

[cdafd]

13 R don't have to get every inch wet??

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

The architect marked the drawing as having a system conforming to NFPA #13 and not 13R.

I don't know why but there's lots and lots of possible reasons.

I found this very helpful and interesting all in one place:

Design Options (Tradeoffs) Allowed by the 2012 Building Codes for Properties with Sprinkler Systems

https://www.nmhc.org/uploadedFiles/Articles/Analysis_and_Guidance/Sprinkler Design Options.pdf

I am not sure, and it isn't my job to determine anyway, but I think the architect used a trade off for travel distances to exits. But, as said, that determination is up to the building design professionals of record and not a lowly sprinkler layout technician.

I wish I could claim credit for finding that but credit needs to go to my "trainee" is fast becoming a non-trainee as soon as I can badger him into taking the NICET III tests. Hint, hint.

 

[TravisMack]

I have run into this a few times.

1 - The 28' HSW is width not throw. They max at 10' throw. I have yet to see those work in a unit. They work in corridors and stairwells, quite well.

2 - The way we solved this was to have the builder create a soffit in one unit. We would run down that soffit and use sidewalls to feed 2 rooms. In that end room where you are surrounded by masonry, they just have to do soffits on one side. We always required them to be less than 8" in width so that pendents weren't required under them.

3 - You may want to avoid standard spray ex cov sprinklers. Using residential, you will likely have lower flows which will equal smaller pipe size. Remember, you can use area of room / # of heads to get area per sprinkler. Then, just make sure you use listing of sprinkler or gpm at 0.1.



Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[MGXFP]

Done this many time on well known hotel chains; just finished one almost exactly like this. They always act like they've never heard of it before. You'll need a soffit to put the pipe in for the QQ Studio rooms. The hsw will need to go above the entrance ceiling and have a pendent installed in the entrance ceiling on the other rooms. Bathrooms are probably less than 55 sq.ft. and have a 15 minute rating on the walls so don't need a sprinkler. We've always had to have the GC build an 8" or less soffit on the inside wall away from the exterior wall to put pipe in. I've not found another way. The architect is guaranteed to hate it but our job is to be code compliant, not pretty.

Usually I'll use something like a VK460 which throws 26' for 13 Residential or 13R.

I'm pretty sure the corporate office hires a local architect who uses corporate drawings. The local architect just modifies the corporate drawings to be locally code compliant.

This is a popular style of hotel, to paint and/or texture the bottom of concrete for the finished ceiling which means all trades are crammed in above the bathroom and entrance because the corridor ceiling is usually the same finished concrete.

 

[MGXFP]

As an aside I've told people we could use a residential upright. Viking has a new one VK467.