Are these beams purely decorative?

[IRstuff]

Trying to get an idea whether these ceiling beams could be removed without any structural consequences

Thanks for any useful responses.

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[GregLocock]

They are tension members. Otherwise the horizontal force due to the vertical load on the roof is reacted at the tops of the walls, pushing them outwards. Walls don't like that. I had a house like that. Jericho'ed it.

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[dik]

That's what they look like. The ceiling above may be the location of the 'collar ties' and the lower ones could be decorative.

Dik

 

[ScottyUK]

Sometimes the 'wooden beam' is a decorative jacket around a steel tie rod. In the US I think you tend to build a lot more wood frame buildings than we do over here, so they may well be an active part of the structure. In the UK it's typically either brick / block or steel frame for the load-bearing elements.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, they look like they could be a sort of ceiling joist, without the ceiling, and while they have the appearance of being decorative, when you consider the point made by Greg above, I'd play it safe and leave them in place.

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[GregLocock]

Jump up into the roof space and see if you can figure out how they are terminated.

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[GregLocock]

dik, the proportions are all wrong. If the ceiling conceals the tension member then it is only ~1/3 of the way down the truss, leaving 2/3 to work in bending. You /could/ design it that way, certainly, but you'd still need some sort of slip joint at the truss to wall point otherwise you are bending brick columns.

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[hokie66]

I agree with Greg. Tried to give him a star, but it looks like stars aren't possible in these invitation only forums.

 

[LittleInch]

First off make sure that the beams are actually wood and also what is that strange connecting thing in the middle of the beams?

Is it connected to the beams with screws or bolts?

It does look as though this is a retrofit though where someone has just removed the original ceiling.

V Nice view out the window though!

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[dik]

Greg... not sure... I've seen a lot of collar ties at the mid point to the lower third point. It's likely that the lower ones are collar ties, but, it would be a matter of taking a closer look. If they have been in place for several decades, they may be acting like collar ties. they look awfully slender for the span.

Dik

 

[MikeHalloran]

You could reduce their visual presence, by refinishing or veneering the visible surfaces to match the ceiling above.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[IRstuff]

Are the any alternatives to this approach that doesn't involve something going across that space?

Thanks



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[handleman]

What do you mean by "any"?
Flying buttress?

 

[LittleInch]

A strong beam along the outer wall with strong support at either end?

A very light roof maybe and brace the rafters just above that high ceiling.

A steel box around the walls at roof wall interface?

Some combination of all three?

Looks like you need some specific design options based on site investigations.

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[MikeHalloran]

You could sister/replace rafters, studs and upper collar ties, increasing the depth of all, increasing the rigidity of the joints, effectively converting every roof support into a Vierendeel truss. That would involve replacing the interior walls and ceilings at least. It would be cheaper to move.


But the obvious joints and splices in those dark 'beams' do leave me curious about what's inside, and what the covering actually is, as LittleInch pointed out. Get up there and attack the top with a pocketknife; it might be plastic foam over a slimmer but even uglier tension element.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[dik]

Are the any alternatives to this approach that doesn't involve something going across that space?

a chainsaw and a hardhat? You really have to determine how they were connected.

If structural, you could replace them with a steel tie rod.

Dik

 

[IRstuff]

"What do you mean by "any"?
Flying buttress?"

That came to mind, but there's insufficient space around the house to make that look right.

Nevertheless, My previous house did have a high vaulted ceiling in the master bedroom on the second floor that didn't have tension members going across the room, which makes me wonder how that house got away with it. Now, that house actually only had a half-vault, i.e., the roof looked like below, so that might have been an easier do.

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[LittleInch]

Different scenario. Most of the weight is taken by that vertical wall to the right. It might also be balanced by another roof to the right of that vertical walk.

Thar would still be a horizontal commonsense on the left hand walk but if the angle was less then this might be able to withstand it.

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[GregLocock]

My guess is the midspan iron plates hide a joint in the beams. Our bedroom had a planked pine ceiling, it was like a foretaste of a coffin! So that's now white, it improves the room no end.

Cheers

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[oldestguy]

I lived in a log cabin for a few years. Roof angles were about 45 degrees from horizontal. Two attic bedroom had that sort of thing. When I added an addition I also used them. They were "toe nailed" into every other roof rafter with 10" spikes.. The object was not to take any tension. Instead they took compression and, in effect, shortened the span of the rafters, assuming equal snow loads on each side.