AS1554.1 - Welding of Structures - Section 7 - Error found

Hi All,

I've found an error on Section 7 of AS1554.1. I believe is quite relevant.
Basically the section 7 give requirements for visual inspections of welds, allowing welding supervisors, boilermakers and etc to visual inspect welds.
However, ISO and another AS referenced in the standard allows only NDT technicians to perform these inspections.
The conflict exists because 1554.1 is referencing the ISO and another AS. A more detailed explanation is within the powerpoint presentation. See attachment.

Any thoughts?

 

[kingnero]

ISO does not only allow NDT technicians to perform VT. Lots of welders and foremen perform VT / VE, fully compliant to the execution standard.
It is however mandatory to check visual acuity annually for those people.

 

[r6155]

Good information in ASME V NONDESTRUCTIVE EXAMINATION

T-923 PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS
Personnel shall have an annual vision test to assure
natural or corrected near distance acuity such that they
are capable of reading standard J-1 letters on standard
Jaeger test type charts for near vision. Equivalent near vi￾
sion tests are acceptable.

Regards

 

[BossSteel]

I Already have an e-mail confirmation from Standards Australia that I am correct to affirm that only NDT personnel are able to perform VE (Visual Examination) on welds. You may comment with your opinion but it is not correct. Refer to attachment.

 

[r6155]

If you already have an answer then why waste our time helping you?
The answer you were given is obvious because your question is ridiculous.

Regards

 

[dhengr]

I’ve always hired blind welders and welding supervisors, because I couldn’t trust them not to look at their work and finished products. They do complain a lot about burnt fingers as they try to feel for their work, but that’s a small price to pay when it comes to the potential of violating stupid codes and standards and their poor coordination and misinterpretation. And, it saves on that visual testing crap too.

 

[kingnero]

ISO and another AS referenced in the standard allows only NDT technicians to perform these inspections.

Please provide where it is stated under ISO standards, that only ISO 9712-certified personnel may perform VE?

You may comment with your opinion but it is not correct.

A bit harsh, don't you think, especially when it's you who is not correct?

 

[BossSteel]

The thread type is set as REVIEW and as per my post, the intent of this thread is to gather thoughts.
The PDF attachment gives all relevant explanation to the subject.
This is a thread for people to contribute with thoughts, experience and applicable standards, not to throw blank statements without reference.

 

[kingnero]

Two excerpts from ISO country:

Another one:

The PDF attachment gives all relevant explanation to the subject.

I didn't see those in your PDF?

 

[DekDee]

Diego,
I have had the misfortune to be visually inspecting welds in accordance with AS/NZS 1554.1 ( probably the worst code / standard ever written ) for nearly 40 years now.
As a Clients Representative for the past 15 years I have accepted the qualifications of numerous Welding Inspectors ( AWS / CSWIP ) for work on projects requiring welding be in accordance with AS/NZS 1554.
I will not be changing my perspective based on your attachment.

Basic statement is this (and I could not care less about what has been written) - Welding Inspectors / Welding Supervisors perform visual inspections - not NDT technicians.

 

[r6155]

Hi DekDee
The welding supervisor does not sign any visual inspection report. The inspector does.
Do you agree?

Regards

 

[DekDee]

r6155,
Which codes / standards require a signed visual inspection report ?

A7.2 Qualifications of Inspectors
As much of the steel fabrication involves the cutting
and welding of steel, it is important that the inspector
should have had practical experience in these fields and
be familiar with the requirements that govern the work
to be inspected. Welding inspectors should be qualified
to at least the same level as the Welding Supervisor (see
discussion in section A4.12.1). The WTIA Welding
Inspector Certificate and CBIP Inspector Certificate offers
evidence of qualification, as does the AS 2214 Welding
Supervisor Certificate, and these three qualifications are
deemed to be acceptable.

 

[r6155]

@ DekDee
ASME V ARTICLE 9 VISUAL EXAMINATION

T-922 PERSONNEL REQUIREMENTS
The user of this Article shall be responsible for assign-
ing qualified personnel to perform visual examinations to
the requirements of this Article. At the option of the orga-
nization, he may maintain one certification for each pro-
duct, or several separate signed records based on the
area or type of work, or both combined. Where impracti-
cal to use specialized visual examination personnel,
knowledgeable and trained personnel, having limited
qualifications, may be used to perform specific examina-
tions, and to sign the report forms. Personnel performing
examinations shall be qualified in accordance with re-
quirements of the referencing Code Section.

Regards

 

[DekDee]

r6155,
The OP is speaking about AS/NZS 1554.1 which makes no reference to ASME V.
Both ASME B31.3 and 31.1 do not require records for visual examinations (except in specific circumstances)
Cheers,
Shane

 

[r6155]

@ DekDee
How do you evidence that a visual inspection was carried out?

Visual inspection is the most cost effective method of detecting common defects in welding and castings. As it can be implemented easily throughout the progression of a job it is easy to eliminate simple errors and problems preventing the follow on effect.
Each visual inspector is WTIA trained and qualified in compliance with Australian Standards AS2214 and AS1796 or to NDT standards such as AS2062, AS2177, AS2207and AS1171.
Our inspectors carry a range of instruments in their kit to enable precise measurements and accurate assessments to be made of your welding.
Our inspectors are also able to offer helpful advice on remedying any welding faults and for adjustments to a welding procedure specification, WPS, to be made.
Written reports are supplied promptly post-visual inspection meeting the requirements of AS3978.

See AS 3978  ITEM 10 INSPECTION REPORT

Regards

 

[DekDee]

r6155,
In 20+ years as a CWI the only time I have ever signed a Visual Inspection Report is when I have been employed as a TPI.
That is part of the service a TPI company provides as proof of completion of work.
The majority of TPI work is remote from the actual Client so evidence is required of work undertaken.

Tens of thousands of welds are completed daily around the world and accepted by the Owner / Purchaser - without a Visual Inspection Report.

If the code of construction is AS/NZS 1554 and AS/NZS 1554 states Welding Supervisor qualifications in accordance with AS 2214 are acceptable as an Inspector then as the Clients Representative I will accept signed reports by that Inspector.
If there are conflicts between AS/NZS 1554 / AS 3978 & AS 3998 that is not my responsibility.

 

[r6155]

A long time ago (1976-1980 approx) I visit the fabrication shop and look at a butt weld X-ray that reveals undercut (not allowed).
The visual inspection (VI) report was not made and obviously this VI was not made. The undercut is detected by VI.
The weld was repaired and a new X-ray was made, at no charge to the client.
With this I want to emphasize that it is important to have the visual inspection report.

Regards

 

[BossSteel]

To Summarise my post:
AS1554.1 Section 7.3 says that visual examination shall be in accordance with AS3978
AS3978 section 4 (INSPECTOR REQUIREMENTS) says the inspector shall have qualification with AINDT or EQUIVALENT in accordance with AS3998 or ISO 9712.

How are you guys missing this big picture? It is quite clear that only NDT personnel can perform VE (Visual Examination).

 

[DekDee]

BossSteel,
Not missing anything and your statement is not correct.

"It is quite clear that only NDT personnel can perform VE (Visual Examination)."

As per AS/NZS 1554 Part 1 (which is the governing code/standard in this case) visual inspection is conducted by the Inspector.
Clause 7.2 clearly states the qualification requirements of the Inspector.

The Construction Code / Standard (in this case AS/NZS 1554.1) always takes precedence over any codes/standards referenced within.

If the AS/NZS 1554 code committee have made a mistake then it is their responsibility to resolve the conflict between Clauses 7.2 and 7.3.

Footnote:
This is from WTIA Technical Note 11 2004 regarding Clause 7.3.
Whilst not a requirement of Part 1, the use of AS 3978
to provide guidance on visual inspection requirements is
recommended.

Obviously it has been changed to a mandatory requirement without realising the conflict with Clause 7.2

 

[BossSteel]

DekDee,

My statement is correct as per AS/NZS 1554.1 Section 7. We cannot argue this, because it is stated on the document itself.

AS/NZS 1554.1 is not the governing standard for metal inspections.
AS3978 is the governing standard for metal products visual inspections, it says on the title.

Now, if the AS1554.1 has errors or not, you cannot ascertain that on a forum, without any basis. An investigation has to go through, you as an engineer should know that a range of factors impact on this matter.

Nevertheless, we follow the latest revision of AS/NZS1554.1 for welding works, regardless if you think there's something wrong with it.

If there's a litigation, the judge will follow the AS1554.1, regardless if it is correct or incorrect on a persons point of view. Hence why 'legal gaps' exists.