ASME IX and Socket welds

[petermn]

Can anyone help me out ? My welders are Qaulified on 2" ss to ASME IX ,sch 40 6G Groove weld full TIG . My question is simple is these welders qualified to weld socket welds on 1/2" and 3/4" NPS pipe? Our Client keep on pushing me to Qualify them on 1/2" for socket welds. Please Help

Thanks
Petermn

 

[metengr]

Simple answer - yes. Groove weld qualifies for fillet weld all sizes. See ASME Section IX, Table QW-451.4

 

[stanweld]

Yes

 

[petermn]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I have checked but I have a couple of Korean guys that keep on telling me that I am interpreting the code wrong so I almost started to doubt myself.

Like I said thanks a lot.

Regards

Peter

 

[petermn]

I still have problems with our client. They still maintain that our welders are not qualified for fillet welds ie socket welds. Is there any way I can "Validate" or confirm officially to them.

Thanks
Peter

 

[metengr]

petermn;
Unfortunately, if your client insists with the additional qualification of socket welds (which are fillet welds by definition) and you have shown them the relation between groove weld and socket weld qualification in ASME Section IX, I don't see any way around this. Your client is your customer, and if they insist and are willing to pay for this additional qualification, I would do it.

If they do not want to pay for the additional qualification, I would tell them that it is not required by code rules, and unless you pay for this added expense the socket weld qualification will not be performed.

 

[weldtek]

Agree with metengr. Are you sure the customer specs don't require qualification on socket welds. Some of our clients do require a special welder qualification test.

 

[unclesyd]

Having as many socket welds as any plant in the US we require testing of welders for their ability to make satisfactory welds that will meet our specifications with a 100% RT.

Our piping specifications for all socket welds requires that we verify that the welder is capable of making acceptable socket welds regardless of their current certifications.

The reasoning is that over the years we have found that roughly 30% of good welders consistently have trouble with socket welds. This was verified on several large projects. The 100% RT and the testing of welders was started after a large project was started after the first large ISO was tested, it wouldn't hold air, much less Helium. We don't know where the acceptance radiographs came from but they were definately not the welds in that ISO. In testing the welders on this job we took out 4 of fifteen as not capable of welding sockets either due to skill or attitude. The whole ISO was redone.

All our specifications on the RFQ are spelled out in full and includes cross sections and a couple of radiographs. We make sure that the contractors welding foreman and QC personnel are appraised of the requirements. We did allow one contractor to verify his welders on the last last big job. We got into big trouble with the quality of welding right out of the box. Now we require the welders to be verified as capable on site by our people prior to commencing work.

We realize that this approach is costing a little extra but considering our process requirements and the hazards of the process fluid being on the loose it is considered money well spent.

 

[JayCarp]

Look CLOSELY at ASME Section IX , Paras QW 452.3

and QW 452.4 .

Both of these paragraphs specify as a lower O D

limit for less than 1 " od that the OD qualified

is the size welded . ( versus the 2 3/8 " specimen )

To qualify for a 1/2 " pipe you would have to

weld up 3 specimens so that you would get { 3 x

.840 } of effective weld to look at in the radiograph.

This is one of the most missunderstood sections

of Section ix of the code .


If you were welding 1/4 " IPS with a fillet or a

groove weld you would need to have 5 specimens

done - this is NOT simple stuff -

 

[metengr]

JayCarp;
If are familar with ASME Section IX, you need to review Article III before going to any tables in Article IV. Please review QW-303. This may change your position on this matter.

 

[weldgooch]

Don't get lost in the differences between Procedure and Performance Qualifications.

QW451 deals with Procedure Qualifications, QW452 deals with Welder Performance Qualifications.
As "metengr" pointed out earlier in this thread, QW451.4 allows for any size fillet weld to be made with a Procedure if a groove weld Procedure qualification is obtained.

QW - 452.6 "Fillet Qualification by Groove-Weld Tests" allows for the Performance Qualification version of the same allowance (i.e. if a Performance qualification is obtained on a Groove Weld.)

QW - 452.3 only applies to groove weld diameter sizes qualified with Groove Weld Performance Qualfications.

QW - 452.4 only is applicable if the Performance Qualification is performed with a Fillet Weld Explicitly.