ASME IX - Do I need WPQ for every WPS used? 1

[mrbougles]

Hi All,
I often read this forums posts but this is my first login and post.

My Question:
Does ASME IX permit any situation for a welder to weld to a WPS without him/her not having a WPQ for that particular WPS?

My company has well over 1000 WPS's. Even if I. Restrict my pool of WPS's to WPS's qualified at my location we still have 100+. I don't have all (we only have 2) welders having a WPQ for all available WPS's though. When a weld needs done urgently (think rig down at 500k a day urgent) what restricts me picking a WPS fur the job the welder didn't have a WPQ for? Obviously, the welder needs to have continuity for the process but what else (diameter, thickness,etc...)? We have and use SMAW GMAW,GTAW, SAW, FCAW WPS's and our 2 welders maintain continuity for these. 90% of the time it is ASME IX (and API) we work to but we qualify and use AWS and ISO also. Let's assume SMAW, ASME IX (with impact requirements) for sake of example.

I seem to have rambled on a bit here but hopefully someone somewhere can decipher a question and give an answer or kick start a discussion. I typed the above on mobile phone so predictive text errors may occur that I haven't spotted. Thanks.

My Understanding/experience Level:
I'm not a welding engineer and I don't ever pretend to be but I'm not totally ignorant of welding metallurgy, code (ASME, AWS, and ISO) and although I'm the closest thing to a welding engineer at the facility I with at which has 2 welders. I have a good network of IWE colleagues located in other countries. I'm in the UK working for an American oil and gas company.

I write and review welding QA/QC docs, PQR, WPS, and WPQ documents and help coordinate welder continuity etc. I get pushed beyond my confidence , welding training, time capacity and competency too often by my employer. I like learning and studying having engineering degrees etc to my name but limited spare capacity to study to become IWE presently.

Let me know if I posted this to the best place on eng-tips.com as still learning my way about the web page.

 

[weldstan]

Of course. Welders need not be qualified to each WPS. Read the welder performance requirements in ASME IX.

 

[david339933]

You don't need to test welders on each WPS per Code. A welder qualified on one WPS is qualified for all WPSs within their qualified range (P#, F#, Thickness, process, etc.)
See QW-304, last paragraph.

 

[mrbougles]

Thanks. I have read ASEM IX:2021 QW-304 and I agree it is pretty clear. I will go take a deeper dive into the official ASME IX interpretations page for QW-304 and possible revert back here to pose any further questions I may have.

I think I may have a question regarding situations similar to the below scenario (made up ranges to illustrate the point)

ASME IX WPQ 1 (Welder 1)
Thickness: 1" -> 3"
Process: SMAW

ASEM IX WPQ 2 (Welder 1)
Thickness: 4" -> 6"
Process: GTAW

ASME IX WPS X
Thickness: 5"
Process: SMAW

All other essential, supplementary and other variable etc being the same across both WPQ's and WPS and there are no other WPQ's or WPS's held.

Question:
Can Welder 1 weld ASEM IX 5" SMAW production weld using WPS X?

I will go and dig into code ASME IX, ASME Official interpretations and online etc for my answer and confirmations etc but in the meantime I leave the above question for your consideration. Thanks.

 

[david339933]

When welders are qualified, they don't have a minimum thickness...only maximum. So 1" -> 3" is not correct. If a welder has been tested on a coupon 1/2" thick with a minimum of 3 layers, they are qualified for basically unlimited thickness.

So yes, the welder should be qualified to weld 5" thick material assuming they were qualified on a coupon at least 1/2" thick. But based on what you wrote, the welder is only qualified for 3" thick material and would not be able to weld 5" thick.

GTAW qualification has no bearing on the this, as the process is SMAW for the 5" weld.

 

[mrbougles]

Thanks. I know the thickness ranges I posted don't reflect code ranges etc. I just picked random numbers to seek confirmation that we cant simply cherry pick ranges across WPQ's to (incorrectly) justify a welder using a WPS.

I take from your post that when justifying the use of a welder to weld using WPS Z I can only look to a single WPQ's ranges. This makes sense and is how I have operated until now and how I have understood it to be. I'm asking these questions which may appear as stupid questions to give myself validation on what the truth is. Based on this then in scenario 2 below Welder 2 would not be able to weld using WPS Y. Is this accurate?

SCENARIO 2
ASME IX WPQ 3 (Welder 2)
Base Metals: P - No. 1 through P - No. 15F,
Process: SMAW

ASME IX WPQ 4 (Welder 2)
Base Metals: P - No. 21 through P - No. 26
Process: GTAW

ASME IX WPS Y
Base Metals: P - No. 51
Process: SMAW

All other essential, supplementary and other variable etc being the same across both WPQ's and WPS and there are no other WPQ's or WPS's held.

Question:
Can Welder 2 weld ASME IX P No 51 SMAW production weld using WPS Y (assuming f number etc is fine)?

 

[david339933]

First thing is the process. If you are looking to weld with a SMAW WPS, welder qualification on GTAW is no good. They have to be qualified in the process to be used.
Secondly for SMAW the welder is qualified for P1 - P15F, P34, and P41 - P49; so no this welder is not qualified for welding P51.

 

[david339933]

I take from your post that when justifying the use of a welder to weld using WPS Z I can only look to a single WPQ's ranges.

This isn't exactly true. You can use multiple WPQs. For example you can qualify a welder on a thick coupon and couple that with a small diameter pipe coupon to have the welder qualified to a broader range.

 

[mrbougles]

Perfect. Thanks.

(I meant to include "34, and P41 - P49" in scenario 2 but must have missed it when I copied and pasted).

Ideally, I would have access to a database like TWI's Weld Qual, ESAB Weld Note or one of the other numerous options about these days as this would make life easier (examples below). In the meantime, I will manually check these things and work on developing an Excel Spreadsheet. ...until I convince the company to invest in a software option. Not sure if the software options are value for money but some of them look pretty good to me.

https://www.twisoftware.com/software/welding-software/

https://www.thinkcei.com/prowrite-weld-procedure-software/

http://cuteqm.org/

http://www.weldingmanager.com/

https://www.weldassistant.com/

http://www.cspec.com/https://www.es...dcloud-notes-document-management-software.cfm

https://smartweldingmanager.com/

 

[weldstan]

P No 51 is titanium and a welder must be qualified on Titanium alloy. Secondly SMAW process cannot be used to weld Ti alloys. It would be better if you somewhat understood welding engineering and metallurgy and ASME IX to pose your hypothetical questions.

 

[mrbougles]

I know this SMAW can't be used on titanium.

Time is a commodity i don't have much of currently.I Work 12 hour days and have young kids and elderly parents to care for etc etc. I didn't carefully pick real life variables etc but didn't anticipate getting grief about it on first post to the forum. I wrote them as hypotheticals but I face similiar scenarios every week.Advising project engineer on what WPSs can be used what can't and auditing suppliers etc.

I'm far from a welding expert but I feel you have judged my level of study and experience inaccurately. I'm a professional chartered engineer with a master's degree in engineering, amongst other technical and other uni studies, A couple decades experience in engineering and worked with fine details of metallurgy and welding throughout (ISO, ASME, AWS, writing and working with PQRs, WPS and WPQs etc etc). Next time I'll set aside more time to construct my questions with more consideration for real life parameters.

In hindsight i was a lazy when replying with hypothetical unrealistic parameters. I genuinely apologies for this and will be more careful in future when posting. I do appreciate the answers given and the value of your time. They have offered me verification of what I held true and that is a comfort.

 

[weldstan]

As I recall (no having access to ASSME IX anymore) F No is also an essential variable for welder qualification which further limits the alloys to be welded.

 

[SmartWeld]

Since Smart Welding Manager has been mentioned here as one of the softwares, I just wanted to say that the name has been changed to WeldTrace. You can contact through the contact us page for a free trial. Thanks.

 

[mrbougles]

Thanks smartweld/weld trace. I flicked through your webpage... Looks good