ASME Section III and lube oil piping

[jpankask]

I am somewhat new to ASME code and haven't looked at it in a while. We have a purchase order issued to a company that specifies piping for a diesel engine lube oil system to be designed under ASME section III code. The company does not have an ASME quality system certificate and cannot perform the design to ASME code. We are practically limited to this vendor because we are a nuclear plant and the OE has the original design documentation. I have been told that lube oil piping is specifically excluded from section III requirements but I have not been able to verify this in the code books. Can anyone point me to a reference where this is stated? Thank you!

 

[lostsailor]

jpankask,
What Edition/Addenda/Section of Section III does the purchase order reference?
Regards,
RLS

 

[lostsailor]

jpankask,
OK, I'm next to my code books again. The most current edition and addenda do not specifically exclude the piping that you mention as per NCA-1130. The key information that will govern how to handle this piping will be the original Design Specification. How was this piping originally spec'd out/purchased/supplied?
Regards,
RLS

 

[jpankask]

Thanks lostsailor for the info. Our original spec for this was 1974 through 1977 edition of the code but if it's not in the new code, I doubt it's in the old one. I will look at the section you mention.

The project is to relocate the motor drive lube oil pump and motor to a place that is easier access for maintenance on our backup emergency diesel generators. I am sure that it was originally purchased as ASME piping for this safety related equipment (nuclear power plant world).

Thanks again!
Jason

 

[lostsailor]

jpankask,
Are you "sure" or have you verified? Check the Design Specification and original purchase orders, CMTR's, data reports, etc.. It's not unusual for people to be "sure" of something only to find that they should have verified.
Regards,
RLS

 

[jpankask]

Was verifying as you were writing. Yes, the original purchase spec called for ASME Section III, Class 3 on the entire pressure boundary of the system. Our new purchase order for the redesign also specifies that the installation shall meet all applicable codes...including ASME Section III...

It looks like we have 3 options; 1) make the supplier subcontract the piping part of the design ($$$), 2) get relief from the NRC on the issue (+time+), 3) see if we can do it in-house (+resources+).

Thanks for the replies and help.

 

[GrimesFrank]

jpankask,
Funny our EPG lines (Fuel and Lube) are designed to B31.1. Whoever spec'ed out yours liked overkill.

There is no specific statements exempting lube systems in Sec III. There is an exemption if memory serves to hydraulic oil systems in B31.1 from that era (our plant's the same age). Don't have my book right now. Looks like you are hooped by your original designer.

I can't understand what propietary rights your OEM has to piping though. Anyone with their stamp should be fine. If the NRC is anything like our CNSC, backing out after the fact is nigh impossible. Good luck.

Frank "Grimey" Grimes
Rule 25. of Swanson's "Unwritten Rules of Management"
Have fun at what you do. It will reflect in your work. No one likes a grump except another grump.

 

[jpankask]

Quick update for anyone that may have questions in the future, after some digging and study.

It is correct that lube oil specifically is not exempted anywhere in the code. The code actually points back to the design spec. The guy who originally told me this had a design spec for a system that did not specify ASME section III code so he was able to say essentially "spec doesn't specify, we don't need to meet section III code." However, the full story is that right before our plant startup, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) said we won't let you start up unless your Emergency Diesel Engine keepwarm systems are ASME section III. We agreed in order to facilitate startup. Probably didn't ever envision changing the system. Now it's in our design spec and we're stuck with it unless we can go back to the regulator and get them to lift it, which is not likely.

So, thanks for the input and help.

 

[vpl]

Frank

FY: Nuclear plant piping being ASME Section III versus B31.1 may well depend upon the age of the plant. Some US nuke plants are built to B31.1 and can be maintained to that standard. Others were built to B31.1, but new systems/ replacements have to be to Section III. The "latest" operating plants (i.e., 1980's versions) were built to Section III. And while there may have been a lot of overkill (i.e., specifying a more stringent code than actually needed), once it is in your licensing basis it takes much time and money to remove it.

In jpankask's situation, if NRC imposed it, then it's definitely a requirement that needs to be met. I would not recommend trying to qualify a pipe that was not built to ASME Section III in-house.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.