Available Piping and E&I Design School?

[elaineabc]

Hi everyone,

I have been working about 6 months in piping design system, however due to insufficient piping background, I have difficulties drafting and understanding piping design concept such as isometric drawings, bill of material, and piping specifications. I like to learn the refinery piping design system and its electrical & instrumentation control. Anyone knows where I could obtain a 2-3 weeks training with any reputable instutition, please let me know. I appreciate your understanding and assistance in advance. Thank you.

 

[Frank1344]

Hi,

There are books out there which can help you reaching your goals.
Piping Guide by Syentek, Process Piping Design by Rip Weaver, etc.

Good luck,
Frank
Calgary

 

[cadnutcase]

Check out spedweb (Society of piping Engineers and Designers)

http://www.spedweb.com/spedwebpublic/default.asp

I took a plant layout and design class, that got you started in all of the basics. It wasn't as near as detailed oriented that I would have hoped for, but it is a great place to start. It was also tought by a lot of teachers that are from the industry.

More importantly is the book they give you, it is a great reference tool.
Process plant layout and piping design by Ed Bausbacher and Roger Hunt.

They don't really cover I&E and if your not in Houston it is probably not an option because it is a 10 or 12 week course 2 days a week.

I would also suggest a local junior college would be a great start. I know Houston Community College offers piping drafting classes.

cadnutcase

 

[elaineabc]

Your replies are very kind. I still don't have the solution. If you tell me to read a book then I am out of luck because I do not have enough experience. What I need is detail oriented training. For example, instructor will teach about pipe materials, pipe components, set up bill of material, tips & tricks to build isometrics, build P&IDs, pipe support design, foundations design, insulation & coatings, etc...

My other problem is I can only go away on training for a maximum of 4 weeks (I will run out of cash if it will take longer than 4 weeks). I hope you could hear me saying that to assist me better. Thank you.

 

[Ashereng]

I like to learn the refinery piping design system and its electrical & instrumentation control.

Depending on where you are, a brief introductory course (2-3 weeks) is a good start. Perhaps try your local college or technical institute. Also, ask your peers where they went to get their diploma/certificate.

Also, if you had just started, does your company have in-house training? Do you have a mentor?

I find that if I had a bit of knowledge, THEN go on a course, I get a lot more out of the course since I can now ask questions.


"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[JLSeagull]

Good luck on the instrumentation. I have been studying instrumentation and control systems for several decades. I rarely repeat the same stuff because something usually changes. Sometimes it is the technology; sometimes it is the codes and standards or client specifications.

Plant or construction site support is a more valuable training tool than a college class or contractor training. This is true for piping and all other disciplines too.

 

[Ashereng]

The same can be said of all the disciplines mentioned - piping, electrical and instrumentation. These are all separate disciplines and trades. To master it all takes a lot of time. To get an introduction to each, a little time.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[elaineabc]

I am trying to obtain a good training class for piping design. Obviously sounds like noone comes up yet with a great class. I think it's great opportunity to take avantage of the oil & gas market. If anyone else could point me in the direction, I would deeply appreciate your guidance.

 

[Ashereng]

elaineabc,

My apology.

What I am trying to convey is that in 2-3 weeks, there is not enough time to "train" anyone to be a good piping designer. 2-3 weeks is only enough to give an introduction into the discipline.

To be a good piping designer is typically 1-2 years of technical school, followed by many years of experience working.

Then again, I am not a piper. I would like to hear from the pipers out there if they agree with my estimate.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[pipingdesigner]

This isn't the first time this question has been asked.

Generally the best way forward is to try to get work with a company that will train you "on the job" for a couple of years.

You will find tips and training articles on

http://www.pipingdesigners.com

if you look around under the various topics.


pipingdesigner

http://www.pipingdesigners.com

 

[Frank1344]

Take alook at :

http://www.spedweb.com/spedwebpublic/Layout/layout.htm

This is a website for Society of Piping Engineers and Designers and they offer Piping courses.

Hope it helps,
Frank,
Calgary

If you are willing to come to Alberta, there is SAIT (Southern Alberta Institute of Technology)in Calgary,

http://www.sait.ca

which also offers process piping courses.

 

[Ashereng]

If you go to Alberta, there is also NAIT in Edmonton.

Go Oilers!

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[cadnutcase]

The best way to learn is to work with somebody or several people who are willing to teach you and answer all your questions while doing actual projects. These people and companies are out there.

Count on this being at least a 5-10 year process at least to learn petro/chem or refinery piping to be exposed to enough criteria.

At least where I work we have a company philosphy to hire people who may not be the most experienced, but are willing to learn, intellegent and have good positive attitudes.


At my last company we used to give a piping written and cad test, guys with "20 years experience" on their resume would routinely come in and score around 20%. We hired the guys who scored at least a 75%.

The written test was arranged where the questions got easier to harder. Basically if they missed one on the first page you knew it was all over for them right there.

The CAD test was even worse. I love the people who put a piece of software on their resume because they saw it demoed at one time or something similiar. They usually think they can learn it in the first couple of weeks on the job. After an hour if they hadn't run the one line we asked them to run, we would usually run them off.

We had to quit giving the test when one of the bosses who couldn't pass it, compained it was unfair. As soon as he was fired for incompetence, we reinstuted(sp) it.

cadnutcase

 

[11echo]

You know the only way an "average joe" can learn piping design any more is to take all the drafting you can get, including AutoCAD and/or Micro station. Then "try" to find a Piping Drafting class at a locate J.C. You won't be a designer, but you could get your foot in the door as a Jr Draftsmen at an Engineer shop. Then start asking a TON of questions! When your doing "Red Line Drawing" try to understand what the piping system is doing, or trying to do ...flow direction, type of valves been used, instrumentation, piping spec. being used, & etc. AND if you can't make since of it, asks the Engineer ...TIME PERMITTING! I've found a lot of mistakes that way and this helpped me get a handle on being a designer.
I was lucky and got into a BIG companies designer school ...lucky I say now, because they'd drop you like a hot potato when they didn't need you! *L* I laugh now because the shoe is on the other foot! …And now they have to PAY to get good designers! ... As I'd guessed you've noticed. Remember the oilman's prayer from the early 80's? "Please Gawd let there be another oil shortage, I promise not to piss it away this time!" *L* Amen BROTHER!! ...Mark

 

[Ashereng]

Or

"I can't drive 65."
"Drive 80 and freeze a yankee."

Sorry, slightly off topic.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[NozzleTwister]

elaineabc,

Find the oldest Piping geezer in your office, even if he's not a CAD whiz, and ask him to be your mentor. One of the most valuable 'Lessons Learned' in my career is that these old men that used to rub me the wrong way as young engineer are an irreplaceable wealth of knowledge and experience.

Don't be afraid to start learning. Numerous great sources of info are cited on this thread and other threads on this BB. Start studying them and if you don't understand, talk to your mentor about it.

Like the others have said, becoming a good Piping Designer is not learned in a few weeks but takes years of hands-on experience. Also, do not confuse Design skills with CAD skills.

Good luck,


NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas

 

[thalon]

I agree, it take a lot of time to become a good piping designer, and having a mentor(s) or at least people who will take the time to anwser your questions is invaluable. As nozzle twister said... "do not confuse Design skills with CAD skills". I've seen a lot of fancy looking CAD files from a predessor who managed to design some of his piping to run rigth through support steel. If you have specific questions please post them here and we'll do our best to help.

 

[JLSeagull]

ISA provides industrial training on instrumentation and control systems. Poke around at

http://www.isa.org/Content/ContentG...g_Course_Locations/ISA_Training_Institute.htm

The Texas State Technical Institute and San Jacinto College have courses, perhaps short courses. Check the upcoming ISA Conference in October or AIChE Conference for short courses.