Balon floating ball valve leaking

[johnull]

Hello.

Is anyone familiar with the Balon floating ball valve?
These valves are very easy to maintain/redress, however, I feel no matter how good of a job you do when performing maintenance, you never know if it is going to leak.
The only thing I can say 100% sure works is a flange sealant. However this is prohibited in my area, so we need to think of alternative solutions.
I've tried Everlast grease under the seats. slightly improved the success rate of a good pressure test, but not satisfactory (to my liking)

I mean, if it is 100% clean, some to no pittings and new seats/ball it should not leak. Worst part is actually the low pressure test. (250psi on a 1480psi valve)

Hope to hear some good solutions

 

[LittleInch]

Which type?
What seats?
Got a sectional drawing?

"some to no pitting" is never a good start. Ball valves need to be spotless and completely round.
Floating needs the DP to work best.

What's your test criteria?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[HitokiriAoshi]

All you can do, as a non repair shop. is take valve apart, re-install new o-ring, wipe up any buildup with some scotch brite, inspect for damage, and maybe use a high grit sand paper to polish up the seat to ball interface (if necessary)

if you start develop pitting where the seat to body is contacting, you should just change valve at that point.

Luke | Valve Hax |

https://valvehax.com/

 

[johnull]

The reason I say some to no pitting is because there is a lot of the valves with pittings that holds, and a lot of valves without pittings at all that leaks.
The primary and secondary sealing area are both on the seat to ball interface. Not the seat to body. However, that is where we find most (if not all) of our leaks.
As soon as we put some flange sealant under the seat, it holds almost 100% of the time.
I think it is poor construction. The seat to body interface should have been developed. Maybe inside a tight groove or similar like Starline's

This is the valve:

https://www.balon.com/products/floating-ball-valves/SeriesF740psi26.html

this is the seal:

https://www.balon.com/products/floating-ball-valves/fbvInfoMultiSeal.html

 

[gerhardl]

Hello johnull,

When you have pittings common on a multiple of valves, something is clarely wrong.

A good constructed floating ball-valve, with narrow tolerances in production (minimumvarity in how parts fit together), correct material selection, and all suited for the flow/fluid should normally give no problems.

Suggested checkpoints:

Balons references for this (exact) valve at similar conditions.
Differences for flow, fluid, pressure, operational seqences for OK and not OK valves.
Time for valves emptied but not cleaned and not operated, possible drying fluid at seal/balls.
The seal grooves (2 per seal) will possibly work against purpose and gather dirt and give abrasions depending on fluid composition.
Have other users with similar fluid better experience with other constructions, seals or valve producers?

Good luck!

 

[LittleInch]

There isn't enough detail to see the seat to body mounting and fixing.

Do you have a good detailed sectional drawing showing this or some pictures?

Usually a floating ball seats are fixed pretty securely in place, but very difficult to see the detail here.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[johnull]

I'd say this is as close as it gets.

http://www.wermac.org/images_large/valve_ball.html

The seat has its own area were it seats/sits, however I would not call it a groove, but rather a hole or area where it sits.
The seats as you might see is flush with the bore wall so I'd say it sits pretty securely in place.
I also mean that because it is flush, that is why media has the possibility to go underneath the seat and cause trouble.

Sorry my bad English here, it all came out hard to understand I'm afraid.

 

[johnull]

quote:
Hello johnull,

When you have pittings common on a multiple of valves, something is clarely wrong.

A good constructed floating ball-valve, with narrow tolerances in production (minimumvarity in how parts fit together), correct material selection, and all suited for the flow/fluid should normally give no problems.

Suggested checkpoints:

Balons references for this (exact) valve at similar conditions.
Differences for flow, fluid, pressure, operational seqences for OK and not OK valves.
Time for valves emptied but not cleaned and not operated, possible drying fluid at seal/balls.
The seal grooves (2 per seal) will possibly work against purpose and gather dirt and give abrasions depending on fluid composition.
Have other users with similar fluid better experience with other constructions, seals or valve producers?

Good luck!

I'll try my best to answer.

- Balons references for this (exact) valve at similar conditions. None that I can find or know of.
-Time for valves emptied but not cleaned and not operated, possible drying fluid at seal/balls. Balon states that these valves are maintenance-free.... I disagree. We redress these on a regular basis. Some would say way to often. It can also take some time before we actually open a valve that has seen well fluid, depending on where in the process it sits. Usually on an annual basis at the lowest, but also every once it leaks if not replaced annually.
-The seal grooves (2 per seal) will possibly work against purpose and gather dirt and give abrasions depending on fluid composition. Not sure I understand completely but I do think I agree. In my thoughts, when you close the ball, it leaves a gap that allows fluid to go under the seal/seat, and possibly cause the abrasions/wear due to dirt gathering. It can be used both ways, but it is typically installed to work one way only, so if it seals, it should seal for a long time (and it usually does once it seals)
- Have other users with similar fluid better experience with other constructions, seals or valve producers? Balon valves are most commonly used in my area. There are also some other of course. Starline is one that comes to mind. I rarely have issues with these, but again I've only worked with less than 5% compared to the amount of balon valves. I'd say it is a better construcion. But it takes a little bit more time to redress, and I believe they are a lot more expensive. So for our purpose I am not sure if these are really saving costs when you take everything into consideration. However I cannot tell you this 100% as I haven't runned these the way I have with the balons.

Sorry again for long and messy answers/explanations.

 

[LittleInch]

I know they say it shouldn't matter, but does it in realoty seal better in one direction rather than the other? I.e the bigger body end rather than the removable bit?

But well heads are tough places for valves.

Don't expect cheap miracles.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[johnull]

I don't think I mentioned they being on a wellhead, nevertheless I have no issues with them leaking as that can happen to any valve.
But not being able to understand how to repair it really annoys me. I consider myself above average skilled when it comes to repairing. But when it comes to these valves I've just given up.
I redress them, and hope for the best. Some of them leaks, I take the apart and inspect them again for damages on the seat (which is new) and body. Sometimes a little more grease helps, sometimes not, and some times we just put the flange sealant under..

 

[HitokiriAoshi]

as you don't appear to have the drawing, we can't help you very well.

However, for floating ball valve, i'll teach you a cheat. PTFE spacer rings. put a thin ptfe spacer below the saet, like 1-2mm thick, to provide additional compression. You may be able to get some more life out of these valves.

Luke | Valve Hax |

https://valvehax.com/

 

[bcd]

How are you testing the valve? In other words, what is your testing process? What do you do when you redress the valve? I have a suspicion that the issue resides in one or both areas. Floating balls are simple. Only 2 possible leak paths around the downstream seat. Between the ball and seat and around the back of the seat. They require pre-compression between the ball and seat when assembled to provide low pressure sealing. With soft seats, if you do a high pressure test first, you may have problems passing a low pressure test afterwards.