Beaver 1600 CSD Electronic Devices

[791018]

Hi
Could anyone advise me in this problems in Cutter Suction Dredger type Beaver 1600 electronics devices
we faced a problems in our electronic signals from the PCB to a solenoid for hydraulics system.
our cutter speed 3 is not functioning, ive done all things in hydraulics parts and all the things going ok. but, we found no signal received by the hydraulics cutter 3 solenoid from the PCB or Relay in the portside console. i've done the 're'wiring to source for any earthfault on the deck, and finally the wiring was upgraded. But, the same problems occured. For info, before and after upgrading, we found either our PCB diode and Relay was burned twice a month. this is a big problem for me to improve our production quantity.
could anyone suggest me on this?

 

[itsmoked]

The inductance of your hydraulics solenoid is blasting your relay and diode.

Are you running the solenoid on DC?

How specifically is your diode in circuit?

What do you mean by "burned" for each device?

 

[791018]

Yes we are running a 24 V D.C. supply
the diode is built in on the PC Board as a 'distributor' from electrical source to our solenoid in hydraulics system.

 

[itsmoked]

The DIODE should be reverse connected across the the solenoid's leads preferably as close as possible to the solenoid barring this as close as possible to where the leads come onto the board. Not in series with the leads.. Can you confirm this as your description sounds like the diode is in series?

 

[791018]

itsmoked
cutter suction dredger is the most popular machine to do a dredging work for reclaimation and canalling. its a vessel!!
u can see many derdgers and system at

http://www.ihcholland.com

or other dredging company (baskulis, van oord etc.)
ok
i'll upload the image for you soonest possible
TQ

 

[791018]

image was uploaded at links below:

1.

http://tinypic.com/kez38z.jpg

2.

http://tinypic.com/keznyg.jpg

3.

http://tinypic.com/kezo0i.jpg

4.

http://tinypic.com/kezo1x.jpg

5.

http://tinypic.com/kezo6d.jpg

i'm waiting for ur reply

 

[791018]

1. see diode no 3 and 4
2. burned plates
3. nonworkins solenoid which not received a signal
4.
5. Port Side console for electronic device

 

[itsmoked]

Nice pics.
Good job!

Okay first thoughts would be the diodes are too small to freewheel that particular solenoid which is pretty large.

Do you have the part number for one of them? Can you read it?

They may be failing and that results in the relay quickly failing too.

Try as I might I cannot tell if these diodes are across the solenoid or in series with it from the pics.. They kinda look like they are in series... hmmm.

See if you can trace one out or find a schematic.

I will check back when my beauty sleep is over.

 

[791018]

sleeping time aaaa...
k...
i'll try my best
TQ

 

[itsmoked]

HEY WAKE UP!!



Any luck on a part number and circuit layout?

 

[Comcokid]

Now that Itsmoked has as asked the initial questions, maybe I'll butt in and give it a try.

Idealy, the diodes would be across the solenoid terminals to conduct the negative kickback for when the solenoid is turned off. Idealy, the diodes would be close to the solenoids to do this.

I'm concerned about pictures of big ships and references to port side and the like. This to me implies that the solenoids are a long way aways, and that the cables connecting relays, diode cards, and solenoids travel in conduits or cable trays with lots of other cables, including possibly high current power cables. IF this is true, then it is possible the diodes are getting fried as current is turned on/off in other devices or systems. Parallel cables form a large transformer. If there are transient spikes comming from other ajacent cables, then they could be damaging the diodes. I would suggest that you replace the diodes with not only a higher current rated device, but a much higher voltage device as well.

The diode cards appear to be pre-made to support a larger diode. The diodes installed appear to be an older style silicon type.

 

[itsmoked]

I welcome butting in.

Comcokid I couldn't agree more. Excellent points. Yes the cards look like they would support bigger diodes and possibly some large MOVs too. They also look like a after-thought add-on due to the excessive board real-estate. The diodes look ancient to me.

I am hoping 791018 can come up with a part number.

Wondering if a snubber might be in order and if one could be worked into the holes in the boards..

 

[791018]

no specified part no found
just the manufacturer code number 28340235 (IHC Holland)
refer to the drawing, just a simple connection from PCB to Solenoid in series, and the solenoid wasput 20m away from the diode.

 

[Comcokid]

I have seen the diode case type before in old power supplies. I indicated the diodes were an "older style" but ancient is probably a better descritpion as I would guess they date from the 1970's.

If I had to guess at a replacement for the diodes, I would use something like a 1N5406 - 3 amp 600 Volt - should be very common. The members of the 1N540x family are all 3 amp and rated for different voltages, so if you can find only a 1N5404 (400 Volt) it would also may work OK. It is also possible to find 6 amp diodes in an axial case, but this is about the maximum current device that is not stud mounted.

Since the failing diode is in series, the solenoid coil could be bad. If it had a few shorted turns in the coil it could continue to operate but could be pulling excessive current that is overloading the series diode and overloading the relay contacts.

If you continue to have problems, then modifying the circuit by adding a snubber or limiter could be in order.

 

[itsmoked]

In series boggles my mind..

If you can't get across the coil or across the relay I can't see how you can help the situation. Get a high enough PIV and the coil will be arcing to itself.

As a stop gap I would probably try putting a LARGE MOV from screw to screw across the relay contacts.

Something like:

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/awa0000ce2.pdf

GE makes good ones too and they cost far less than Panasonic's over priced stuff(I offer Panasonic only as an example).

 

[791018]

hello frenz
i've traced the some failure on other parts, i still wait for a drawing from the manufacturer's due to lost of original drawing. However, i tried to trace by following the direction of the circuit, from main hydraulics relay to cutter speed relay, PCB Diode, Junction Box Panel and finally reach the solenoid. Something happens in between main hydraulics relay and cutter speed relay, there was one more relay which also burned. I've change the relay and everythings going OK now. However, i'm not very happy with all things happens. I still looking for the answer, why many of the relays burned in short time? however, i need to wait also the layout for the arrangement of relays, diode etc to share with you.
TQ

 

[itsmoked]

791018; This has happened more than one time?

 

[fsmyth]

'smoked, the "older" diodes are current - it is a glass case
instead of plastic. Usually available in higher current
ratings, but specs similar to the more familiar plastic
offerings.
It looks to me like the diodes on the board are across
adjacent terminals (pretty normal). In which case, they are
across the relay control line, if the hookup is anywhere
close to conventional.
I would suggest following 'smoke's suggestion: add an MOV
at the relay (a diode would be better, but then the relay
would be polarity sensitive - not always a good idea in field
wiring) or a snubber network. Although 20 meters is not a
significant run, there may be other considerations about the
cabling in proximity.
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