Best languages?? 1

[Grindinghalt]

Starting the path towards an ME degree this semester, and I cannot decide which language to take.

I've decided that French, or German would be beneficial, although spanish is usually a good option here in the states...

I currently work for Bombadier, in Total Transit Systems on the Las Vegas Monorail, and I plan to stick with this company.

Thanks in advance,

Tod

 

[ddelaiarro]

is foreign language a requirement for your degree? I'm assuming it is because of your question, but the reason I ask is because many folks I know with engineering degrees (myself included) were exempt from the FL requirements because they were pursuing an engineering degree.

 

[RDK]

With Hispanics being the fastest growing ethnic group in the US Spanish would be a good option.

On the other hand Bombardier is a French Canadian company and a lot of the people in the headquarters in Montreal are francophone.

I have had their defense services division as a client; another engineering firm that did a lot of work for them got the contract in large part because the head of that company spoke French. (He was an American as well.)

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[DaveVikingPE]

How about Japanese? You'd be able to watch Godzilla movies and Ultraman without the dubbing!

What's the language most of your customers speak?

 

[RDK]

I’d stick to one of the European languages with a lot of common terms and sentence structure simular to English.

You start out with an 800 word French vocabulary since the words are similar between French and English. I imagine that Spanish would also have a similar amount of overlap. German perhaps a little less.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[TheTick]

Don't bother with German. They all speak English. I have not met a German engineer who was not fluent in English, even in technical matters. I grew up i a German-speaking household, and the language has been of little benefit professionally.

I am currently learning Mandarin. Big commitment. Far more difficult than picking up another Indo-European language. However, the possibilities are endless with even marginal fluency. Word has it Japanese is somewhat less difficult to learn.

Currently I am in Suzhou, just west of Shanghai, babysitting molds for a product launch. A little Mandarin helps to chip away at the language barrier from my side of the wall.

Many Germans here. They all speak English. Sometimes if I doubt a Chinese person is comprehending what I am saying in English, I'll toss in a German sentence. If they keep nodding and saying "OK", it means trouble.

 

[MintJulep]

French will serve you well if you want to stick with Bombardier.

French and Spanish are sufficiently similar that once you learn one you will be able to read the other with probably better than 80% comprehension. Either serves as an excellent base to learn the other.

 

[MintJulep]

Hey Tick,

How is the Mandarin coming?

By now I'm sure you've figured out how important the tones are. Now, think about this. The Chinese have regional accents just like every other nationality.

Japanese is much easier because it doen't have the tones to deal with. Just say it like you heard it and you will be understood.

Eventually you will learn to identify a lack of comprehension without having to switch to German,

 

[TheTick]

re: Mandarin

Understanding tones actually was not difficult. I had some vocal training which helps in learning how to make unfamiliar sounds, plus good relative pitch skills (not nearly perfect pitch, though).

Regional accent are tough. I've been flustered by the Suzhou accent, "s" for "sh" switch. Suzhou has its own language, but most under 40 also speak standard Mandarin (with that vexing anti-lisp).

I've never been wrong on the "German switch test". People I've used it on have always tested positive for non-comprehension, so I'm doing well at detecting. I also use it as an opportunity to make the point that I do want to be questioned if I am not understood.

 

[FrenchCAD]

I would say French, not only because I am one of them, but because it may be usefull for you if you stay at Bombardier.

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France

 

[Ashereng]

Regional accents is not the main issue with Chinese. They do exist, but what most people run into is actually another "language".

For example. The 2 most common "chinese" spoken in the US and Canadian chinese restaurants are Cantonese and Mandarin. They are as different from each other as English and Russian. Some common words, but very few. If you have ever tried to speak Mandarin to a Cantonese only speaker, you will get some confused looks. I once order "clams" and got "crab". Oh well. Maybe it was the engish accent.

The funny part is, if you write what you are trying to say (in chinese), they can all read it the same.

 

[TheTick]

re: mandarin

Definitely incentive to work on the writing. Can communicate then in multiple languages, including Japanese to a certain extent. Also generates a whole new lexicon for shorthand notetaking.

Rounding out my 3rd (and final?) week in Suzhou. Pronunciation improving with practice. actually getting straight answers to my questions without the "Holy cow, round-eyes trying to speak putonghua!" Hotel staff has been very helpful.

BTW, when in Suzhou, I recommend Southern Cross for Mexican food. Truly an international city!

 

[casseopeia]

The trend here in the SF Bay area is to teach Mandarin to new engineers. The problem is the availability of qualitfied instructors, even in an area with a high percentage of Chinese residents.

Spanish is useful in construction and restaurant design, but I've managed so far in both of those fields without being completely fluent.

I speak German and French and have not found a big use for either except perhaps socially in a marketing role. Same goes for the little tid bit of Russian and Japanese that I know.

I am currently learning Arabic but have not advanced sufficiently to put together a complete sentance, thanks in part to leaning the alphabet first. I was surprised, however, at how much I comprehend when I hear native speakers. Again, not much use in a technical sense, but I have found a use for knowing some Arabic when marketing new work.

Bottom line, if this is your first foreign language, pick one that suits you first. If you have a preference for one language over the other for another reason such as family heritage or an interest in a hobby where one language may be of use, you will be extra motivated to learn.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[Ashereng]

I work with a Japanese gentlement, and with the exception of some "core" words, the Japanese script is not really compatible with Chinese anymore he says. Oh well. At least the major food words are compatible. If that fails, I draw pictures. That and a whole lot of hand waving usually results in a pretty good meal.

 

[TheTick]

My father found much common ground with his Japanese customers due to his being German. Germany and Japan historically had close ties (long before the dreaded "Axis"). The more senior chemists were either educated in Germany or had German textbooks in college.

A friend of mine lived in Japan for a few years. His Japanese doctor kept his notes in German.

 

[MintJulep]

if you write what you are trying to say (in chinese), they can all read it the same.

True perhaps on the mainland. However the "official" character set of the mainland Chineese is a simplified set of Kanjii characters.

Taiwan, Hong Kong and other Mandarin and Cantonise speaking nations still use the traditional character set (as do the Japanese). I suspect that in Hong Kong many can now read both.

Occasionally I will get a newspaper in the simplified character set for my wife by mistake instead of one in traditional characters, only to be reminded that she can't read them.

 

[HVAC68]

Grindinghalt,

You have said you plan to stick to your current job. If you don't have any other preferences on learning one languge over the other for personal reasons, then see which language would help you in work. Do you have a technical collaboration with some foreign company or do you have suppliers/vendors from a foreign company. It maybe worthwhile to learn a language that can also help you in work, unless you have some other preferences.

HVAC68

 

[IRstuff]

There are "Cantonese" speaking nations? Where?

Closest thing I know about is that my father claims Vietnamese is modified Cantonese. Sure the sounds are similar, but...

Personally, I think Cantonese and Mandarin are way closer to each other than Russian and English. Russian and English do not share any recent or semi-recent roots, whereas, Cantonese and Mandarin are relatively similar, both in general and in grammar, at least, for the words and phrases I come across.

Ni hao mah?
Nay ho ma?

Gung hay fat choy!

TTFN

 

[Ashereng]

Mint Julep,

Yes, the written word in mainland China is starting to evolve, as do most languages (differences between english in England and US, such as aluminium and aluminum?). Most readers however can usually figure out one from the other. The divergence is still relatively new.

The Japanese script has undergone the simplified script much earlier. My father's generation is roughly the last generation to learn the old script. The current Japanese script is a simplied script - sort of where China seems to be headed.

There are "Cantonese" speaking nations? Where?

IRstuff, yes, there are Cantonese speaking nations. ;-)

Canton was once a separate country/city state. Actually, China wasn't moving towards being a single nation until the first emporer Qin.

There are many "nations" that consider themselves as a nation different than the current geo-political demarcation. Depending on where you are, think of:
- the Czech and Slovak nations during Czechoslovakia days
- the entire state of Texas it seems and "Red Sox Nation"
- the Geordies in in Tyneside

Russian and English do not share any recent or semi-recent roots

How recent is recent? From Wikipedia:

Russian belongs to the family of Indo-European languages, and is therefore related to Sanskrit, Persian, Greek, and Latin, as well as the modern Germanic, Romance, and Celtic languages, including English, French, and Irish, respectively.

Many Cantonese and Mandarine now use the same phrases because they are in much more contact. As I have said earlier, most chinese can read the same written word. What I didn't mention is that the written word is not what they are saying. In Cantonese, there are spoken words for which there is no written words. People say it one way and write it another way.

Personally, I think Cantonese and Mandarin are way closer to each other than Russian and English.

Okay. I'll take your word for it.

 

[IRstuff]

In any case, Chinese might be a good choice, particularly if you think there might be a possibility of doing manufacturing in China.

It would seem that most low-cost manufacturing in Asia has shifted from the traditional locations of 20 yrs ago, Korea, Japan and Taiwan and moved further westward and southward.

TTFN