Best lateral/earthquake resisting structural system for 40 storeys? 7

[SatoshiNakamoto09]

Hello,

Which is a good reference that discusses the most efficient earthquake/lateral resisting systems by height?

Thank you

 

[Eng16080]

I'm not sure this exactly answers your question, but you can use ASCE 7, Table 12.2-1 to at least see which systems are allowed for your particular building height and seismic design category. I don't know what would be considered most efficient, perhaps a steel moment frame or braced frame.

 

[KootK]

I struggle to recall a good reference that deals with all materials at all heights and is not a proprietary, firm specific resource. Most of the good publications are industry specific dealing primarily with a single material, be that steel, concrete, cold formed metal etc.

The right solution for your project is likely to be predicated by:

1) Where in the world your building will be located. Philippines?

2) The kind of occupancy(s) your building will contain. Residential? Commercial?

In many places, a 40 story residential building is likely to utilize concrete construction and concrete shear walls for its lateral force resisting system. This reflects minimal depth requirements for mechanical systems and a strong impetus to minimize floor to floor heights.

In the developing world, a 40 story building is quite likely to be cast in place concrete with concrete shear walls regardless of whether the occupancy is residential or office space. This reflects the availability of concrete and the low cost of labor relative to materials.

In more advanced markets, you see greater variability for tall commercial buildings. Many will combine steel gravity systems with concrete shear walls, steel braced frames, or both.

I feel that 40 stories is getting a bit tall for moment frames unless one is using them to make a tube out of the entire perimeter of the building al a Fazlur Kahn.

I think that it's also worth noting that, at 40 stories, you're starting to transition to the kind of building that will be dominated by wind load, even in high seismic environments.

If you decide to explore concrete, I like this as schematic design reference: Link

 

[ThomasH]

Satoshi,
Considering that you have asked several questions regarding a pedestrian suspension bridge, what is your role in this project? Are you the structural engineer or a contractor?

And I think you need to be a bit more specific to get a useful answer. Or are you just crowd sourcing this design? (Sorry, couldn't help myself )

 

[SatoshiNakamoto09]

Thank you so much! very nice input from you regarding my question.


I'm a contractor for small scale projects and and also do structural designing.

Is asking this type of questions prohibited in this forum? If so please remind me of the rules in here, maybe I just haven't able to read it.

There seems to be many people here bothered of asking questions. Isn't this the purpose of having this forum?

I find engtips useful and if there is a membership subscription, I would definitely pay for it.

So I think, if someone is bothered about this type of questions, they can just ignore the thread. It's so simple

 

[BridgeSmith]

There seems to be many people here bothered of asking questions. Isn't this the purpose of having this forum?

The purpose of the forum is for practicing engineers to receive help on their real world projects. The forum is not here to replace an engineering education or give long detailed explanations to questions to satisfy someone's curiosity. Please respect other members' valuable time and stick to questions about specific issues that you really need an answer to.

 

[SatoshiNakamoto09]

I am a practicing engineer and this is a real world project of mine. Something wrong?


Did I ask for an answer that has to be detailed and long? It's only up to the members who wants to answer. If you think that its very tiring for you to answer, then you can skip the thread.


I did not force anyone to answer me I did not force anytime to give time to me. Which part I dad? Can you show me?. again as I said, everyone can skip my thread. All my questions are issues that I really need an answer to. It's the reason I am asking right?

No need to comment here if it doesn't help. you will look arrogant for that.

 

[phamENG]

Satoshi - despite this being an international and online forum, it's actually a pretty close knit group. Many of the regulars here know who each other are in the real world - we're connected on LinkedIn, some have formed business partnerships. We welcome other engineers in and most of us really enjoy helping. BridgeSmith is certainly one of those - he's very active here and incredibly knowledgeable. So when somebody new turns up, many of us are very cautious until that person has demonstrated at least a baseline knowledge and have proven they aren't a fraud.

The issue is that we see a lot of people come on this site asking questions that are frightening. People who are apparently in positions to design actual structures that actual people will occupy and use. We consider it our duty as engineers to not only ensure the safety and well being of the people using structures we design, but also not to facilitate an unqualified person designing structures that can endanger peoples lives.

To date, your posts have been very vague. You've asked really broad questions and demonstrated little to know initial understanding. I'm not saying you don't understand - just that you haven't demonstrated it. But to ask "how do you design a pedestrian bridge" and "does this block of concrete in tension need reinforcing" and "what's the best choice for a 40 story building" without giving any details at all that would help in making the determination or insight into what you've already considered....it sounds to most of us like you have no clue. You've also claimed to be a contractor and a practicing engineer. Maybe you're both. But where most of us come from, that doesn't really happen. There are engineers working for or as contractors, but they don't do design engineering - just construction engineering and management. So perhaps we don't fully understand your position.

So if you want to be a part of this forum and community, please at least meet us halfway. For this thread, tell us about what you know about 40 story building lateral force resisting systems. Tell us about the building you're designing. Footprint, materials, etc. If this is going to be a steel building and we tell you concrete shear walls are the best, it's not going to be very helpful or productive.

Also, calling long time and valued members arrogant isn't a great way to get traction here.

 

[ThomasH]

Is asking this type of questions prohibited in this forum? If so please remind me of the rules in here, maybe I just haven't able to read it.

There seems to be many people here bothered of asking questions. Isn't this the purpose of having this forum?

Of course it isn't prohibited to ask questions. But when somebody asks a question and get questions back to clearify things I would expect the OP to participate in a discussion. That didn't always happen regarding the suspension bridge you asked about previously.

But if you don't like to participate in discussions there may be an option for you. I input your question into ChatGPT and the answer is "Seismic Design Manual" published by AISC .

Edit: I want to add that I agree with a lot of phamENG's comments.

 

[SatoshiNakamoto09]

Hehehe, you area like "Hey dude, we are OG here, or like Hey freshman dude, we are seniors here and you should respect us"

Again if you ddnt like me asking these questions which you think is annoying you can skip the thread, I am not forcing anyone to answer me. only to those people who are not stressed and have time to answer. okay?

unless my question is how much is 1+1? then this would really annoy you

My questions are like getting some opinions of other people. not because I didn't really know it or I am not doing a research outside of Engtips.

Again, no need to comment pls if it doesn't answer the question. you can block me - or I hope there is this option here.

You can mind your own business and I can mind my own too...

To me it doesn't matter if no one answers my question just to those who are free and those who doesn't get annoyed.

I can feel you.. too much stress from work results to negative effects like getying annoyed easily.

meditate, enough sleep, proper diet are some tips I can give you in case you are not aware of it

 

[dhengr]

SatoshiNakamoto09:
There you go..., if you would only move your butt to a meditation or a yoga forum, we would all be much less stressed out.

PhamENG wasted his time giving you a very reasonable, respectful and informative response and you blew him off. This along with your sophomoric questions and lack of meaningful participation, or providing enough meaningful engineering info. to illicit any good engineering discussion, indicates a pretty dim bulb. Answering you, at your apparent level of structural understanding, is downright dangerous to those around you. Just build it, and watch it fall. Then blame your Structural Engineer.

 

[SatoshiNakamoto09]

Hello, your comment doesn't help instead your making the small issue getting more complicated.
again if it doesn't help pls skip the thread. Simple

"Skip thread and ignore" is the key. soo please I have been reiterating this line above many times already

To future readers pls skip the thread instead of commenting not related to the question.

Thanks.

If you want to talk personally to me and say something not related to the thread subject you may give me your contact info we can talk about it outside the thread. okay? you are making the thread longer which is really out of the topic..

Again and again and again...


To future readers pls skip the thread instead of commenting not related to the question.

No more comments not related to the topic will be replied by me beyond this line so plsss

 

[BridgeSmith]

Since you refuse to give any information about your role, your experience, your qualification, specifics about the projects or structures you've asked about, I can only assume you are not being honest with us about why you are are here, asking these questions.

Within the span of a couple of weeks, you have asked questions about 2 major and vastly different projects, so I suspect you are not actually involved in either project in any meaningful way. I can only hope this is the case, because if you are, you are well beyond your level of understanding in both cases.

It has become obvious that responding to you is at best a waste of time, and at worst, facilitating very dangerous situations. I'm out.

 

[Struct123ure]

I am just sad you SatoshiNakamoto09 are not handing out more "Great Post!" stars there are great answers here.

Referencing the construction of the Tower of Babel which was significantly taller then 40 storeys, the best lateral system is "burnt brick, cemented together with mortar" as the exploitation of the tower showed I would reinforce each 4 row of bricks with SPF(spruce, pine, fur) twigs embedded in the mortar. The walls I would start at 10m wide and narrow by 1 brick from each side as you go up every storey.