better the devil you know?

[kchayfie]

I am in the fortunate position of being in work and having another job offer on the table. I've been weighing up the pros and cons of each job and they are pretty well matched (one has slightly longer hours but the work times are more flexible, one has a profit related bonus scheme and the other has employee share options, one pays more but offers less holiday, etc). At any given hour on any given day I might prioritise one aspect over another and so I keep changing my mind about what to do now.

The job I am in now has improved since I started looking for other work, but the improvement may turn out to be short-lived. Or not. It might last. The new job might turn out to be just as bad. Or not. It might be better. There are other companies in this industry in this area that are recruiting so I could always consider moving elsewhere if I get this decision wrong.

So my question to you is this: when faced with two prospects that are equally appealing on paper, would you stick with the devil you know and stay in the same job? Or do you think the grass might be greener elsewhere and would you take the chance on finding out?

I know that I'm the only one in a position to make this decision but I'm hoping your responses will help me to figure out what I really want to do!

 

[michfan]

Do you have a family/children that depend on your income? I'd take that into heavy consideration if I did.

I don't, so I tend to take the risk and make the jump. Life is short, I try to always work to make things better or brighter in my life. And I listen to what my gut feelings are.

But I'm in a really crappy place right now, looking to move to something better very soon, so I may not be too objective!

 

[Lion06]

I think it is also worth considering where (on a scale of 1-10, say) both of these places fall.You said they are equal on paper, but that isn't enough in my opinion.
If you consider them both 7's, I might not be so quick to move, because their isn't a whole lot of room for improvment, but a ton of room on the downside. If you consider them both 3's, the choice is clear.
If you are gaining valuable experince (valuable being the key word), it might be worth staying until something that you are sure you will enjoy more comes along.
I will be looking soon, but only because of an impending move. My new residence will be close enough to the office that I CAN make the commute, but far enough that staying isn't realistic long term. I will stay until I find a very good job that will pay very well. I feel like I have the ability to be pretty picky right now, and you should assess that for yourself also.

 

[sms]

If they are really that equal, then it is time to negotiate. The new job needs to be significatly (say at least 10 percent) better before you should risk a move. So you are in the drivers seat, if you make a counter offer and they turn you down, what have you lost? Nothing, you stick with your current equivilant job...

I would figure out what would make it a no brainer to move for and ask for that. Ie 15% raise, more vacation, etc...




-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[chaulklate]

"Well matched" isn't sufficient in my world to change jobs. Ordinarily, I wouldn't change jobs unless there was something better I was going too (more money, more growth, more vacation, more responsibility, better company...something "more"). Or if you move homes and the commute is no longer realistic as mentioned by StructuralEIT above.

Unless you are outright unhappy with your current job and simply "need a change" vs "wanting more", I would stay where you are. I don't see the merit in moving for "well matched" as you give up seniority.

 

[FOETS]

Push to negotiate the job offer to see if they can match some of the advantages you already have, this may sway the balance; and what have you got to lose? They can only say no, or withdraw the offer and you are still no worse off. It'll test how much they want you. The risk of uncertainty with the offer needs to be compensated for by tangible advantages.
First offers are normally at the low end of a range for that position and can be bettered. However some firms will refuse to negotiate.

 

[swertel]

You must be working at the same employer and interviewing with the same prospect as me. But in my case, it is more of a personal issue. Money, vacation, work load, etc. are all well and good. But there is something going on personally with me right now that I don't like about myself. When this happens, a change is in order and that's the reason I'm even looking for new employment.

In other words, really question the motivation for looking for new employment in the first place. All other apsects aside, can you find what you're looking for at the new position (to be happy)?

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[michfan]

Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you, Scott. When I start to hate getting up in the morning and I start getting to work just 5 minutes later than I should, and my family starts telling me that all I do is complain about work...that's when I know I need a change.

I made it 5 years at my first "real" job before I really started hating it. I loved it until we hit a combination of downsizing and layoffs, and I had 5 different managers in less than a year.

Then I was laid off, started my own business and was back loving work again. 12 or 14 hour days flew by. But, like most businesses, it's taken a while to take off so I returned to engineering full time last April. Made it 3 months at the first job before I got tired of working with the 3 unfriendly insecure people that I had to sit near. One of the women-she left for maternity leave, thank God- talked incessantly throughout the day, the guy only grunted answers and would snap at you if you asked him how to do something. The other person was just plain scary. She tried (I swear) to run me over in the parking lot one day. The non-stop talker would say things like "my sister-in-law...blah blah...is sooo old! She just turned 40, can you imagine being that old????" I'm not 40 yet but I'm getting there...it made me want to scream "shut up!" at her. All in all, poor pay, long drive, annoying coworkers, so I switched to something a little closer to home.

Better money, worse benefits but I had a much shorter drive every day. I just traded one set of negatives for another. After 3 months there, I told the boss he really didn't treat people very nicely and I got fired. Found a new job (at least I'm very employable...) and I'm back to unfriendly coworkers, long drive but at least the pay and benefits are better again.

I'm now sleeping too late, hating getting up again, and the best part of my day is when I leave work for my other job, the one that isn't making me enough to live off of.

Before I make another change, I need to figure out what type of office situation will keep me wanting to go to work again. I know what kind of work I love to do - it's the manager and coworkers that are a crap shoot every time.

Sometimes it's not just better pay, better benefits, shorter drive, etc. that should influence you - how are the people there? Do they expect 60 hours out of you routinely, because that offsets any benefit from a pay increase. I actually was losing money at the second place because we were expected to work so many hours. And I knew within a week of starting here that this wasn't the right place, despite the better pay, but at least it's a steady paycheck while I search for something else.

There is a lot to factor in besides pay and benefits. If there is any way to spend a day with the people you'll be working with, before you make your decision, I'd suggest doing so. Especially at smaller businesses, that's a big part of what will make your work pleasant or not.

 

[MissouriPE]

It might sound a little crazy, but I say flip a coin. It isn't that I am telling you to leave it up to chance (50/50), but as the coin falls to the ground, in your heart you will probably hear a little "I hope it lands this way". And then you will know what your gut says about whether to jump. There are pros and cons to any position. I just took a job where there are a some personal sacrifices I am going to have to make, but overall I feel like the compensation and career advancement has more potential than where I am at. And in the end, I also was beginning to really hate getting up to go to work. Hmm....a theme here?

Hope I made the right call...but like others, I find myself pretty employable (moreso if I would ever consider moving) and feel like I can always look for something else if this next one doesn't work out. It will be my 5th job in 12 years (although I spent 5 years and 4 years with two of those respectively).

Best wishes in your decision. I'd say if you aren't 100% sure, either try to negotiate up until it is a no brainer to go to the new company or keep looking. Surely this other offer isn't the only possibility out there.

 

[swertel]

Although not being a complete Michigan die-hard fan myself, I certainly do emphasise with your position.

What do I want? My business that I incorporated at the end of last year to take off enough to know it is at least worth continuing, even if just on the side.

And how did I know it was time to start looking, because I couldn't leave work at the door anymore. The stress and annoyances would come home with me, affecting my marriage and family life. BAD!

I love the people I work with. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to convince a few of them to jump ship with me. That would make my decision a no brainer. In the meantime I continue to passively look for new employment. The grass may not be greener, but it is a different shade of green.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[JStephen]

If they weren't that different, I'd just stay where I was. Changing jobs is a hassle in various ways, and if you don't stand to benefit much from it, why bother?

 

[GregLocock]

Before we start haggling over pay I set a limit. If they won't meet that then I don't take the job.

So far I've only been unable to get what I wanted once.

Two years later they were closed down, so I was lucky that I stuck to my guns.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[swertel]

JStephen,

That's what makes the choice so difficult. But the key phrase you stated is "benefit much." Benefit in what terms: salary, vacation time, medical insurance, etc.? Or perhaps the fact that my wife and kids see a change in me, one that is not for the better, and I need to do something about it is what matters most. After a lot of soul searching, a change of atmosphere is about all there is left.

Either that or I'm having an early mid-life crisis and I should be looking down a completely different career path.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[michfan]

I completely agree with Scott. When you work at a job that you can't stop thinking about in a negative way during your off-hours, it's time to think about what that job is doing to your sense of well-being, not to mention what it does to the people around you who have to listen to you complain all the time! All of the good benefits and vacation time in the world can't make up for a poor work environment. I've worked for good companies and bad, and the good working environment with average benefits far outweighs any job with good benefits but a negative environment.

 

[corus]

The two jobs aren't equally appealing, depending on your priorities in life. I'd make a list of the two jobs specifying each characterstic and rating them as to their importance to you, then sum them.
I was offered a job that was much more salary, but a longer drive, fewer holidays, the same chance of redundancy but with less payout, a longer wait for my pension, but opening up new work opportunities. I chose lifestyle to money and the gamble I'd be made redundant from my current job first.
I also wouldn't necessarily put employee share options on an equal par with a profit related bonus as they don't necessarily give a big return. Shares are a gamble and they can go up or down on depending on whether the stock market isn't feeling too squify, it seems.

corus

 

[ScottyUK]

I'd take the job on offer. Whatever made you decide to start looking for another job in all probability hasn't gone away permanently (unless it was lack of money and they've given you a big raise) so you will find yourself in the same position soon enough; you'll just be a little older. Be careful not to follow my example:

I had the opportunity two years ago to join British Energy: good money, final salary pension scheme, big company benefits and so on. In an act worthy of the heir to the throne of the kingdom of stupid people I didn't take the position after listening to various people whose weasel words tricked me into staying. I have cursed my gullibility each day since, but I've had two invites to interviews up in Aberdeen with the oil industry this week so I'll hopefully have an opportunity to correct my mistake.


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[kchayfie]

I've been in the position of wanting to leave this job a couple of times but my phenomenal ability to procrastinate has meant that I didn't get around to doing anything about moving on before things got better again. This time, when I decided it was time to go, I started the application process for chartership thinking that by the time that was completed, things would either have improved again or I would know its time to go. Then a friend who works at the other company persuaded me to send him my CV even though the chartership process isn't finished yet.

He's been on holiday while the interview and offer process has been going on but he's back now. At the moment I'm leaning towards staying but I'm meeting him for a drink tonight to get a better picture of what I would be going to. I think the decision will come down to how persuasive he is tonight!

The biggest problem is that I don't really want either job right now. I'm going to buy a lottery ticket tonight and live in hope for the next 24 hours...

 

[Comcokid]

Better the devil you know . . .

I too know the quandary with being somewhat fed-up with a job, but unsure of taking the chance at that 'possible' new opportunity. I once changed jobs and moved 1000 miles only to find myself in a from the frying pan into the fire . . . situation.

The current company and job seems to be going down hill. They say that if you throw a frog into a pan of hot water, he will jump out. However, if you put the frog into cool water, and slowly turn of the heat, he will cook. I keep trying to tell myself that the steam and bubbles I see in my current job are just the pleasant action of a Jacuzzi, but my reverse psychology doesn’t seem to work. OH! Great! Now they're throwing in Salt and Veggies!

 

[ScottyUK]

Comcokid,

Be grateful they aren't fishing with dynamite!


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...