Building Inspector Issue 3

[TXEng-USA]

We are having an issue with a building inspector in a small beachfront city.

Backstory: We are the engineer-of-record for the two story wood framed house on top of a concrete column pedestal in a FEMA Coast V Zone. The pedestal is at 20' above grade in order to be above the base flood elevation. Needless to say, we had to design a heavy foundation which is composed of 16" square concrete columns on top of a continuous grade beam. Below the grade beam are wood piles driven to approximately 15' for uplift and lateral support.

The building inspector is not used to this type of construction. He is used to seeing 12" driven wood piles that support the podium. I have checked the numbers many times and unless they want the bottom story to be completely cluttered with piles, wood is not feasible. I have talked to him on the phone twice now and each time we end the conversation with him stating that he understands the design and that he just wanted to talk about it since he had never seen it before.

Fast forward to today, I get a call from the owner who states that the building inspector has told him that he can't issue the permit because there are "major issues with the foundation".

Is there any recourse to take against the building inspector for actions such as this? Sidenote, I have been told by the architect that the mayor of the small town who is also in charge of the building department, owns a construction company that builds beachhouses so he feels there may be some posturing going on to get the owner to select his company which can do it with a conventional design.

 

[BAretired]

The first and most important step is to make sure you are right. Have you discussed it with other local engineers?

BA

 

[Rabbit12]

Any indication to what the "major issues" are?

I feel your pain here. I just finished dealing with a plan reviewer for a jurisdiction we were installing a fairly tall (80') vertical vessel. I had pre-tension specified on my anchor rods to prevent any fatigue issues. The reviewer thought since it was "pre-tension" that the rods should be pre-tensioned prior to setting the vessel. This was after I explained to him multiple occasion what the intent the process of pre-tensioning entailed.

I wouldn't bet that he "understands" your system.

 

[BAretired]

Before considering recourse against the building inspector, it may be prudent to request a meeting among interested parties to attempt to allay the inspector's concerns and to convey a better understanding of your design. Perhaps some sort of compromise is possible. I would definitely avoid the suggestion of any impropriety with respect to the mayor's suspected agenda.

BA

 

[MotorCity]

I would contact the inspector and ask specifically what the issues are. As long as the structure complies with the building code and local law, there should not be a problem. The inspector cannot reject a design just because he does not understand it or has not seen it. It sounds like the inspector is having a case of amnesia or talking out both ends of his mouth.

 

[dik]

Bart's got it... because the owner is part of the loop now regarding inadequacy, a meeting must be held between all parties and the methodology explained to all...

Dik

 

[TXEng-USA]

Thanks all for your input. As this was a small job and the fees are very competitive we do not currently have any remaining fee in the budget to meet with the inspector. Should I ask the owner for additional fee to placate the inspector?

On commercial jobs we add fee for items such as this but on small residential we would never get a job if we included it at the beginning.

To address BAretired; I have had another local engineer peer review the design and he saw no issues.

 

[jayrod12]

Unfortunately sometimes you need to take it on the chin fees wise. I would first off be asking for a list of their concerns. That shouldn't take too long to review and respond.

 

[dik]

I'd normally ask for additional fees, explaining to the owner that the problem is with the AHJ. You've done your due diligence by checking with another engineer. He may not want to pay, but, I would ask anyway.

 

[Ron]

I agree that a meeting is appropriate; however, a building inspector is not an engineer. Just because they don't understand the engineering, is not a reason to deny approval. This is a common problem with building inspection.

Go directly to the building official. The inspector does not and should not have the authority to refute competent engineering. Just because he "hasn't seen a design like this" is by no means a valid reason for refusal. Demand a third party review by the municipal engineer or its consultant.

 

[dik]

Ron:
I'd try a softer approach first...

Dik

 

[oldestguy]

My experience on this sort of thing is that the inspector has said "Since you are a professional engineer and say it is safe, that's sufficient for me".

 

[Lnewqban]

I have worked in a Building Department and have some experience with situations like this.
The Building Official and these are the persons to deal with, there is nobody else above the chain of commend who will sing off; hence, you will need to convince them that your design is safe and code compliant or make them demonstrate otherwise, based solely on the code.

The competence of building inspectors and plan reviewers is limited to code compliance.
The Engineer of Record signing the drawings is responsible for a safe design that complies with the code.
The plan reviewer first and the field inspector later should verify that the design and installation/materials/methods/construction comply with the local and state building codes.
They need to clarify what part of the code your design is not complying with.

Some plan reviewers/inspectors have practical experience and some don't.
Your inspector could be either one; he could provide good advise or he could be just insecure.
If you don't force things over that stagnation point, your structure will not be built in that jurisdiction.
Talk to those persons as much as you need, they may understand your points.

 

[MJB315]

Bring examples of where concrete piles have been successfully used elsewhere.

I did a quick Google search and plenty popped up. Here's a link with a few examples, for example.

"Trust me it works-- and here's lots of examples where it has been used successfully." is a powerful talking point, especially in front of your client.

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC

 

[dhengr]

Oldestguy:
For the mos part, that had always been my experience too. I also pretty well knew all of the Bldg. Dept. Officials from years of working with them, and them knowing our work. Now that the AHJ has become a higher power than God, and every inspector and plan reviewer assumes that part of the EOR’s job is to provide them with an education, at no cost to them, except the overtime pay they get from the taxpayers, things have changed and become more difficult.

TXEng-USA:
Obviously you have to always be a bit of a diplomat, because these days the inspector/AHJ can make it tough for you, but it shouldn’t be your job to have to educate the inspector on everything he doesn’t understand, which is still covered by the bldg. code, and allowed as a means of construction. If you couldn’t do half of what many inspectors don’t know about, other than reciting code sections verbatim, you mostly couldn’t build anything. You should ask for specific questions issues and objections which must be addressed and explained, not this general "major issues with the foundation," crap. Normally, you could/would ask for a meeting with the Chief of the Bldg. Dept., after a few rounds with the inspector/plan checker, but it sounds like he could be part of the problem. There should be a state or a county agency which is a step above the community bldg. dept., and in fact, that type of conflict of interest which the OP’er. is suggesting, should be brought up at some level and some point in time, when all else has failed.

Be sure that you consider scour around and under the grade beams, as that might influence your found. design. Otherwise, your approach seems like it offers a robust and much cleaner looking under story from the storm and flood standpoint.

 

[Compositepro]

Off topic here, but "Trust me it works" is a poor habit of speech that tends to be used a lot by people who don't actually know what they are doing. You are contradicting yourself with any actual explanation that follows. Personally, I get very suspicious as soon as I hear someone say it.