Burning all my vendor bridges 6

[Plasmech]

Does anybody else ever have this problem: you get put on a project that's got a fire lit under it. Draw everything up, get the off-the-shelf parts quoted from your vendors. Some of this quote work involves engineering consultation itself or even people flying in to see the application. You finally get all your quotes, you calculate the cost of the machine, ready to order everything and then...someone puts out the fire. No real market for this thing all of a sudden. Something else more important. Oh well, project over (for now).

Now imagine this happening several times over the course of a few years. Imagine what the vendors think at this point. Now a project comes through that really is going to become a reality. But uh oh...burnt all my bridges.

Anyone deal with this?

-Plasmech

Mechanical Engineer, Plastics Industry

 

[zdas04]

You simply can't burn bridges with vendors. There are too many of them. I've had several false starts in the last couple of years, and a couple of my favorite vendors stopped returning my calls--but their competitors are still anxious to talk to me. After a couple of good-start projects, the guys who didn't return my calls have started cold-calling me again.

Don't sweat it.

David

 

[MikeHalloran]

Blew ten years of _my_life_ on a project that got shelved. The machine actually worked, and worked well, but all of a sudden, when push came to shove, Marketing didn't think they could sell it.

Vendors deal with projects that get delayed irregularly, indefinitely, or forever, all the time. I don't know how they deal with it, but they do.

Expect them to behave professionally, but don't expect any hoop- jumping.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[TenPenny]

A lot of this depends on how the relationship between you and the vendor went. If you were pushy, arrogant, nasty, demanding, unreasonable, etc, the vendors will probably tire of you. If you were actually communicating with them, working with them to give you what you were looking for, and you were straightforward and open, everything will probably be fine.

Over the years, I've done many things that got cancelled, and I don't hesitate to work with good people, but there are people in this world who feel that all vendors are there to be treated like crap, and they get the least attention and intetest, and after a while it's the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome.

 

[mechengdude]

Sorry to hear your troubles. I have had some trouble with that in the past but not too bad. In response to one of the posts, "There too many of them" (vendors). I don't agree. In some cases, they are one of the few companies in the world that make a certian product. Those type relationships should be managed above a project engineering level and with the senior company players.

 

[GregLocock]

The worst thing is when you are expected to burn your good vendors, and you know it is a bad project, and they can guess it is, but you are still on this Deathmarch, orchestrated from above.





Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[zdas04]

Mechengdude,
I have had very few experiences where I buy directly from a manufacturer. I mostly buy packaged equipment and while virtually all high speed 500 hp engines modified for natural gas come from Cat or Waukesha, there are thousands of people who package compressors, pumps, or gensets with Cat or Waukesha engines. Of the thousands of packagers, there are hundreds that meet any set of selection criteria you name.

If you have a particular widget that can only come from one source and there is no reasonable alternative then you'll tend to get their price list and just insert it into the economics without bothering the vendor. If if is a custom deal with a single source (something that I've never seen, but understand they exist) then you have to make managing that relationship a priority--those are not bridges that you can burn with impunity.

David

 

[TheTick]

It's happened to most engineers. It's also happened to all vendors before.

The best thing to do is follow up with key vendors and discuss the situation. Do your best to assure them you were acting in good faith and that you appreciate all they have done for you.

 

[zuccus]

I have a simliar situation that I hate even worse.

I am working on several projects with some new and existing vendors setup in our system. Everything is going great they give me tons of support, a lot of free engineering, etc. and we carry their budget numbers.

Than inevitabely three things happen.

1) Purchasing decides that they can buy it cheaper somewhere else, so they go bid it out and get an inferior product because purchasing didn't understand all of the requirements.

2) Purchasing beats up the vendor so much on price that they get mad and don't want to do free work for us anymore. Which it turn means I have to all of that work myself.

3) When we do buy their product, I get a call 9 months into the project from the vendor saying we a 4 months past due on payment. So I run down to accounting and raise hell. They blaim it on purchasing not entering the order right, puchasing blames it on accounting. I then have to hand carry it up the food chain to get all of the right people to sign off on it and apoligize to the vendor.

These things don't happen all of the time at my company, but when it does watch out, because I am coming down the hall with a vengance.

Zuccus

 

[ctopher]

I have worked on military projects that were hot for a couple years, then suddenly die. Gov't funding or bureaucracy kill them. Also medical projects that die because of lawsuits.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[macmet]

Zuccus,

Those three things happen to me allllll the time. It drives me crazy but unfortunately there is not much I can do about it.

It's easier on me now that I've accepted it's going to happen and am always as honest as possible. If there is the slightest chance that the project might not be a go, then I tell them upfront. If - and this is the case 99% of the time - the purchasers will only buy what's cheapest then I tell them that. I don't feel as bad if I don't feel like I lied to them.

I get upset about it though, b/c a vendor will help me size certain equipment then when the PO gets issued it goes to his competitor b/c they're $10 cheaper.

All this leads to several burnt bridges. And then none of the higher ups can figure out why it is so hard to get any favors done. And then, what's their response when I tell them someone won't do a favor for us? "We'll just find another one". We are running out of options... So frustrating... Or purchasing will buy a part that looks similar to them but is actually slightly different, so that we can't even use it anymore, and then they expect us to make it work...

Sorry about the little rant at the end. ha

 

[MadMango]

At my last job, if I was on the "Deathmarch orchestrated from above" I tried to be extra nice to my key vendors by treating them to lunch. I worked with some of them for a long time, and when they get asked to lunch by me they knew the hammer had dropped. They also continued to do business with me (the company) because when a project did go into production, our numbers were there to make everyone happy.

Open lines of communication is the key, be straight with them and they'll be straight with you.


"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[cvg]

your vendors are part of the (your) team. They should know that when they agree to work with you in the first place. you should not have any problem calling them back and letting them know how disappointed you were that the project got canceled. You should also treat them like the valuable team members that they are, lunch, tickets to a game, candy for the receptionist - whatever it takes to show that you value their services. If they don't want to be on your team anymore, fine - no skin off your nose - just business. But never, intentionally burn your bridges.

 

[btrueblood]

Stuff happens. A new Congress gets voted in, budgets get cut, marketing changes their mind (again), a different design approach is taken by management... all of which are presumably beyond your control. Apologize to the vendors, promise to let them have a chance to bid on the next go, and move on.

When you KNOW the project is doomed (the forced death march, as Greg so aptly put it), well... Technically, you may be obligated by contracts you signed at hiring on to keep your mouth shut. But there are ways to communicate non-verbally, or between the lines, to let you vendor know that the end may be near. Sometimes your own conscience may force you to be more direct. I was in a situation where I knew the budget had become live-or-die tight for the company I was working for, and they were beginning to stiff our best vendors on payments (I even had one of my receipts get denied for purchases I'd made for the company for some equipment). Upper management was actively discussing and arranging sweetheart "golden parachutes" for themselves when the company went bankrupt. A particular software vendor told me he was out-of-pocket over 1 million dollars to us, and had taken a third mortgage on his house to make payroll for his employees. Him, I took out for a drink that night, and explained what I thought was going down in no uncertain terms, and why. Dunno if it helped him much, as I left for better horizons shortly afterwards, but at least I can sleep (somewhat) at night.

 

[BillBirch]

I have worked on a number of oil and gas, FEED (front end engineering designs) for clients, with the deliverables being a fairly detailed design package to enable EPC (engineering, procurement and construction) contractors to fairly accurately bid a lump sum price. In order to accurately assess the budget, clients are requiring more details in the FEED package, (such as requiring all piping two inch and over to included in the design). Whereas the earlier FEEDs were sufficiently detailed to estimate a project value to within 15 - 20%, they are now requiring a level of detail to allow estimates to within 10% or less.

This is a problem often discussed among my peers doing the some sort of work - how to "stroke" the vendors for equipment sizing / application engineering / budgetary pricing when they know that we, as the deign consultant, will not be placing the POs (but will be placed by yet-unknown international contractors. One strategy we have adopted is to declare that only vendors that co-operate during the FEED will be short-listed on a approved suppliers list within the EPC enquiry document.

On the other hand, I have an enlightened group of suppliers keen to co-operate as they see the opportunity to design their products in early, and see these enquiries as a "heads-up". They may then take the opportunity to market / lobby directly to the client even before the EPC contract is awarded.

Other vendors have simply provided me with their rul-of-thumb costing factors to use myself.

The important thing, as mentioned above is honesty. If you can assist the sales guys with say, feedback on bids (when allowed), or tell them the true status of projects, the good guys will respond accordingly.

 

[salmon2]

I share the same experience with most of you guys. I am dealing with several our existing suppliers which are not easy to replace.

One of them is our biggest supplier and we never got problem with them, even though they are stiff with their price. Our supply chain once set up in our company several years ago began to pick on this supplier - leaving the impression within our company that the supplier is a threat to us. Supply chain is kind of working on a higher level than me, closer to higher management. So they have got the approval to push us to develop alternatives. Several years till now, still no success simply because the current supplier is one of several companies who can possibly manufacture our products.

Another example is a potential supplier B in its developing stage. This supplier was so eager to do business with us that they run a 300 tons of steel and gave us several sample for testing - we were not obligated to buy any. The testing did not go perfectly, but within acceptance, and better than another potential supplier C which made us to commit a 100 tons min amount upfront. You know what happened afterward? I was told to update supplier B that they failed the test and they will be out of game with us because we don't have enough resource and budget test their material any more. On the other hand, we keep trying and doing business with supplier C because we are kind of in the same boat with them and got to find ways to consume the material from them. This is totally the opposite of being reasonable and made me stink with supplier B. Now I was told to contact supplier B again because we have another product needing to have backup. I know I am not supposed to but I really want to tell supplier B to ask for a min purchase amount, otherwise, our management won't take them seriously.

I really do not understand our management and wonder how they manage through so far.

 

[KENAT]

I have told vendors to add cost before to avoid this.

I had some coming to us to do on site support. They kept saying that the costs came out of their sales budget and there would be no charge.

However, I got wind of the fact that we probably wouldn't buy anywhere near as many cameras from them as they seemed to think and was concerned about this.

So for their last 2 visits I had them charge us for on site support. I think they only charged the equivalent of travel expenses though.

Sadly, our use of their cameras was even lower than I'd imagined and they still felt like they'd been taken advantage of.

I tried!

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[salmon2]

My whole heart is fully with you, KENAT.

But as I am kind of new, not very old, to the industry. I just do not understand people around me and our management sometime. Why shouldn't me be more appreciated if I help to cut down cost and risk, not increasing them. We are so arrogant and think we are controlling suppliers. But actually in nowadays suppliers talk over customers most of time. One time I just did it for fun that I found several suppliers are actually bigger companies than us. My boss was surprised to hear that.

 

[HDS]

plasmech

I once worked for a large company with bat wings for a logo. One of their biggest suppliers told me they mad more money on cancellation charges than production. So they focused their efforts on being the goto guys for development and high risk projects. Everyone of their quotes had two pages of fine print.

Every company and industry has a portion of projects that don't make it. The problem is that most companies don't properly bury their dead. On the new projects make a plan up front for how it will be concluded. There is an entire aspect of project management techniques that deal with this.

 

[salmon2]

When you are knowledgeable and experienced enough to foresee the result and made some negative comments on the project output, people can tell you don't draw conclusion too soon, we need more positive attitude, or tell you they are not type of people getting satisfied before they tried (bumped in my words).

That is exact reaction I got when another engineer wanted to have my help on the raw material portion of his project.