CAD Operator versus Mechanical Engineer 5

[fogleghorn]

Our company has some draftsman that used to do the majority of our drawings when we were using Cadkey. Now that we are using Solid Edge and the drawings are so much easier to produce, quite often the mechanical engineers are doing their own drawings so that they don't have to go through the hassle of marking up drawings and re-submitting them to the draftsmen over and over again. My question is, how are other companies handling the leftover draftsman situation? Is your company training CAD operators who then attempt to do mechanical engineering, or are you, with CAD, giving mechanical engineers a useful tool to document their design work?

 

[SomptingGuy]

Engineers learned to type 20 years or so ago. I don't see many typists around here where I work. Times move on.

- Steve

 

[fogleghorn]

I see your point about the typists. Who does the design maintenance when Engineering Change Notices come through? In otherwords, should it be engineers or CAD operators who update the 3D models, the component drawings, and the assembly drawings in order to incorporate an Engineering Change Notice?

 

[MadMango]

I have seen many conditions. Some of the below worked better than others.

1) Engineers perform design calcs and drafters build/detail/maintain the models and drawings.

2) Engineers perform design calcs and basic layout models, drafters detail/maintain the models and drawings.

3) Engineers perform design calcs and build the entire master model, drafters only detail/maintain drawings and models.

4) Engineers perform design calcs and build the master model and detailed drawings, drafters only maintain drawings and models.

Engineers should be paid to perform real engineering, not wrestle detailed drawings and models. It also depends on the widgets you create and your current company culture. Since you just transitioned into a 3D CAD system you will quickly see who floats and who swims. It will take time to find a system that works for your company.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[IRstuff]

We have no drafters whatsoever. All the MEs do their own drafting. Maintenance is the same deal.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[fogleghorn]

Over the last several projects, we've been operating at MadMango's level 4. The problem that we have had with utilizing our CAD operators as designers and draftsman (MadMango's level 2 or 3) is that the CAD operators know that the mechanical engineer is going to ultimately be responsible for the design, therefore the attention to detail just isn't that big a deal to them. If the design doesn't work as specified, or if there are schedule delays, the engineer is the one who gets called on the carpet, not the CAD operator. Basically, everybody likes to fancy themselves a mechanical engineer, that is until the *#?#! hits the fan.

 

[ewh]

"the CAD operators know that the mechanical engineer is going to ultimately be responsible for the design"

Not to excuse laziness on the part of the cad operators, but this is no different than using board drafters. The approving engineer has always taken on that responsibility. It is up to him to review what the operators produce, and reject it until it is correct. Unfortunately, Design Checkers seem to have gone the way of the buggy whip, but this would have been part of their responsibility, and would have lessened the load that is now placed on the engineers.

Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[GregLocock]

In my opinion (2) works well, but we are back at (1) or even (0.5) where I work now. (0) is the CAD guy pretty much leads the design, ie to be rude, analysis by eye and rule of thumb.

I'd add that our CAD guys are really, really, good.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[PSE]

Where I work the engineers create the initial models for a product. When it gets to the point where we might begin sourcing, the CAD draftsmen take the model and create/format the drawings. Drawings are reviewed by the engineer and others before release. We have a couple of people who deal only with engineering changes. They are adamant about details so are "perfect" for their positions as they do a good job of preserving the change history.

Doesn't quite fit with MadMango's hierarchies so I would consider this as a level/combination 5.

Regards,

 

[swertel]

Where I am now, since it is a small company, the engineers do everything. Some designs are just a change to a theme so they take 1/2 hour, but the "paperwork" for the release system (all electronic) takes another 2 hours.

Where I was previously had a drafting department and document control department. The detail designers (draftsman) took the general concept and engineering calcs from the engineer and had to make sure the parts where manufacturable (all fillets and radii) as well as fit together. The engineer had final approval of the drawings so they were responsible for the design, but they pretty much just handed it over the wall and signed the paper when done. The focus was to get the engineers to do all the modeling and let drafting create the final print and work with document control for the release process - thereby saving money because lower paid personnel do the mundane chores.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[SomptingGuy]

An "operator" operates something surely? No thinking involved. Guys here talk about their "oppo's" - people who sim;ply do the work without questioning it.

- Steve

 

[fogleghorn]

Thanks for the feedback. MadMango, I appreciate you categorizing the different ways that engineers and designer/draftsman can work together to get a product designed and then maintained. I also agree with the "widgets you create and your current company culture" comment.

A lot of the CAD draftsman that I have worked with appear to be frustrated with the fact that they don't have a job title with the "engineer" word in it. However, I have also worked with a few CAD draftsman that are doing what they like to do, and their work shows it.

We also struggle with having draftsman who are really just illustrators, they wouldn't know how to go about adding tolerances to dimensions even if their life depended on it.

 

[MadMango]

I have seen a lot of CAD Operators enter the work force out of necessity. In their prior careers they were injured in some way, took a vocational class on how to drive a CAD system, and got hired as "drafters". These types never seem to "get it", but that can't be applied to all of them. It is not their fault, but rather the blame should rest on those that hire them expecting them to be "drafters and detailers".

A good drafter/designer will understand:
-the need to maintain 'design intent' required by the engineer
-have a good understanding of manufacturing capabilities/limitations
-can "talk shop" with the guys on the shop floor/in the field
-don't want the title engineer

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ewh]

Good posts, Mango!

Most places I have worked at used your method 1. The responsible engineer(s) would outline the requirements and let you loose. They kept an eye on progress on a daily (or at least a couple times a week) basis, to answer any questions and ensure that their design intent was being carried out. They often have working knowledge of the CAD software, and verify the models also.
As a designer, I considered it one of the best jobs available. Plenty of opportunity to show your talents and grow, and an engineer to fall back on if the problems grew beyond your capability. You look good - he looks good and visa versa.

I wouldn't be happy as a designer working somewhere that used any of the other 3 methods, too limiting.

Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[Dobe]

Our company also uses Solid Edge and the Engineers are not happy with the amount of time it takes to draw an assembly. We do mostly die design, fixtures and gaging assemblies. Doing the 3D and then the draft takes a considerally amount of time. We are thinking of switching, but are at a loss when it comes to what would be faster???

 

[swertel]

If you are considering switching CAD packages, that's a topic for another thread. But I will tell you that all mid-range (mainstream) CAD packages work very similar to SE. You won't see any time savings by switching. Yeah, one feature may be faster, but something else will be slower for a zero net result.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro