Career advise 2

[Calif]

Hello everyone:

I am looking for career advise. I am a structural engineer with a little over two years experience. I am interested in working for an architectual/engineering firms. What kind of skills should I be adding to repetoire to head in this direction. I have a bachelor degree in civil engineering with classes in Reinforced Concrete and LRFD Steel design. Should I take classes in Timber and Prestressed Steel design? How much would a master degree help in this field and what classes should I take to head in this direction. Is it better to begin with a firm that is big or should I start with a small firm so can have more responsibility.

Any help you can provide is appreciated.

Thank you

SIncerely

Kmat

 

[BobPE]

Kmat:

good questions...I will start with what everyone will bust me on....get yout FE and PE license.....then go to work for a small firm since you are right in your thinking that you will get exposed to a lot more in a shorter period of time. Get your PE after 4 years with the smaller firm, then look for a bigger firm...doing something you like to do. Then think about the masters after you see its relevance in what you like to do....

Just my thoughts....

BobPE

 

[havesealwilltravel]

My advice is to work for your P.E. I don't feel that someone is really an engineer without it. Make sure that you will be working with engineers who can provide a reference fo you a few years dowm the road when you are applying for your P.E.

My advice is to work for a company which provides engineering services that are not likely to be moved overseas. (Gov't work, power plants, land developement, etc. ) If the trend continues most large companies will have the bulk of their traditional engineering overseas and you will have insufficient time to reach management by then.

A master's degree depends on what you want to do. For soil engineering, environmental engineering, etc. it is necessary. For some other specialties, it is extraneous.

You may also want to consider a career which uses your skills but is outside main stream engineering such as law or corporate planning. Regular engineering in this country does not currently have a bright future.

Good Luck !!!!

 

[BJC]

We use structural engineers all the time. I'm in an active seismic zone and a lot of the electrical installations have to be signed off by a registered Structural Engineer. If we want to mount a transfromer on a rack (say - stack two transformers ) we get a structural engineer to design it. We get a sketch (may be the same one we sent over for a suggested design ) back with a PE stamp on it and were set. Electrical inspectors and building inspectors want the Structrual PE sign off. Large conduit racks and cable tray runs need hangers designed by a structural engineer. You need the PE. In California I think Structurals need the Civil PE and the structural is another 8 hour exam on top of that. IT's tough but your on the gravy train if can get a California Structrual PE.

 

[leanne]

Bob, I would not slam you on the PE advice here . For structural & civil, it is probably a critical career path step.

As long as you are unemployed while enrolled in school, you should be able to work on a Master's while working toward your PE. Just make sure you complete it within the required period from matriculation.

And, unless you start a program with an ABET accredited school offering alternate deliveries (internet, videotape, etc), you should plan on being stuck in the locale after you start grad school until graduation.

I would not take any graduate classes for a potential degree without first making sure the courses are acceptable in the degree plan.

 

[Calif]

Well, I have always saw myself as doing something creative with structural engineering. Where I work now, it is mostly NJDOT so the look of a bridge is pretty much laid out. I already have my EIT certification and a master's degree with a PE still looks attractive to me. I was thinking of taking a class in timber and masonry design but I do not think that will help me much in my career. For what I have been hearing and noticing in my office, most engineer do not prize themselves for having a master degree. Some think it was a waste, because you can learn all that need to know without it. Some who do not have master's degrees in structural engineering are looking to get in MBA or a masters in Management but this is mostly about stress and money. Some do not think that what they get paid for does not equat the stress they get for being an engineer. As they say where I am from, there is no love for engineering in here. It basically, pays the bills.

I would still like everyone advise about working for a small firm if you have an opinion on it.

Thanks Again

Kmat

 

[leanne]

Kmat, it's perfectly OK to learn something that interests you even though it is outside your field of expertise. Many engineering master's programs allow a few electives. Even if the classes you want to take are not approved electives, if they interest you, what would it hurt to take them? I'm taking a stained glass class right now - it does nothing for my career, but I've enjoyed it & I wanted to learn the process (it's harder than it looks...)

As for small companies. I've worked in small & large. Both have positives & negatives. Small companies are right for some, large companies are better for others. Our experiences with company size won't be the same as yours.

When we're making decisions affecting my career (& I say we, my DH has input on my career decisions), we sit down & make a list. We discuss the pros & cons. I make the final decision, but only after I've analyzed it with "stakeholder" input.

Make a list of criteria important to you & use that list to make your decision. How will that decision help you meet your goals?

 

[buzzp]

Since the slam came from dannym "I don't feel that someone is really an engineer without it." I feel the need to respond. For structural engineers a PE is likely critical but to make a blanket statement like that reflects on the misconceptions of PE critical disciplines such as structural and civil engineering. If you guys dont have a PE, what are you going to do? Not much.

To blatantly apply this to all engineering reflects on your misconception of engineering in general. I have tried to refrain from getting upset but I am tired of everyone saying your not an engineer without a PE. I find myself heading in a direction I do not want to go but I will with the next PE that makes such a derogatory remark about non-PE's. If you went to a college that offered electrical and civil and structural then you will know what I am referring too. Give it a rest!

 

[BobPE]

buzzp, don't get angry, we are all talking about important things....you post takes the exact opposite of extremes as Dannym 's post. In my opinion, neither post helps with the middle ground and forward movment this thread was taking....

BobPE

 

[buzzp]

BobPE, How is my post the opposite? I said get a PE because your discipline requires it (almost). This is certainly not opposite of dannym's post. Your reference to forward progress of this thread is not applicable. You must be thinking of other threads.
Me being upset is also from another thread, kinda. The slam that your not an engineer without a PE was made in this thread, hence my comments.
I believe Kmat probably realizes he should get his PE, if I were structural or civil, I would too.

 

[BobPE]

buzzp:

all engineering disiplines have the same access to the PE. I work with many PE electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, architectural engineers, industrial engineers, mining engineers, marine engineers, environmental engineers, structural engineers, civil engineers, sanitary engineers.

I can see you being upset, I get the same way, but you know what, it forces us to communicate, even if its in the little work here at the forums....

 

[buzzp]

I never said we did not have the same access to the PE. I said it is more important for other disciplines than for electrical engineers. I too work with all different types in a medium office. I even work with some archeologists, palentologists, etc.
My point is those that believe your not an engineer without a PE have some learning to do about engineering in general. Why would a designer have a PE when all of his work has to go through safety agency approvals? What benefit will I get if my design (resistors, capacitors, IC's, chokes, LCD's, jumpers, plugs, push buttons, and other COMPONENTs) has a PE signature? Absolutely none. The design still has to go to a third party for approval. When you are working for joe public, you are the last line of defense against harmful conditions so you should bear the consequnces of your design. Us design engineers have a last line of defense in safety agency approvals. There is a need for identifying responsible parties when dealing with the public. There is not a need in the design world. We screw up, we redesign the product at the same time our employer starts to question us and we accept the consequences. The kicker is, the messed up product has not been made available to the public.

 

[leanne]

I ignored dammyn's statement because that horse has already been beaten to death in eng-tips.

The BSEE can be in power engineering or electronics engineering. Power engineers need to be RPEs (IMHO), electronics engineering majors usually end up working under the industry exemption. Then there is Computer Science Engineering and industrial engineering (jack of all trades, master of none, as my IE friends claimed).

I used to get into teasing sessions with a co-worker who was an Industrial (Imaginary) Engineering major. Because she acquired her work experience consecutive with degree & mine was concurrent, when Texas had a drive to register industry exempt engineers a number of years ago she was eligible to to be grandfathered into a PE registration & I was not.

 

[BobPE]

buzzp

why do your designs have to go to a third party for approval? Who is this third party? I am just talking out loud....but I guess in my world, the engineer is responsible for their designs, not a third party....I think the same would apply in your world, and I think you as an engineer could benefit from you being the third party....If (and I say IF) your employer was required by some law that they can only use PE's, AND most industry engineers had their PE, don't you think you would be in a better position in general as an engineer making engineering decisions? Don't you think that forcing people that require engineering services to use licensed engineers would benefit all engineers? These are just thoughts....more about the profession that about the individual....

BobPE

 

[electricpete]

The first comment you reasonably objected to was that anyone without a PE is not an enginner (sorry if I have misquoted). I think it is agreed by all here there is no reason to downplay the competence of someone who doesn't have a PE.

As Bob said I think you have gone too far to the other extreme.
"What benefit will I get if my design (resistors, capacitors, IC's, chokes, LCD's, jumpers, plugs, push buttons, and other COMPONENTs) has a PE signature? Absolutely none"

It sounds to me like you are saying a PE means nothing. A PE demonstrates a person has met certain requirements for verified experience, education, and tested knowledge. It's not all-encompassing and no guarantee of a competent person, but it means something IMHO.

 

[havesealwilltravel]

It's not just my opinion that to call yourself an engineer you need a P.E. The state I live in and many states (and I believe Canada also) require that you have a P.E. in order to represent yourself as an engineer. A company cannot give you a job title with "Engineer" in it unless you have a P.E. Also, a compnay cannot use "Engineering" in its name unless at least one of the principals is a P.E. I agree.

Also, I cannot understand why a person who has chosen engineering as a profession would not go through the rather small effort of getting a P.E. if they can.

Please don't give me a litany about how "it's just a piece of paper" and you refuse to "jump through hoops". If you were graduated by a college or university, you jumped through many hoops to recieve that piece of paper.

I'm sure you're proud of your college degree. And you should be it is an accomplishment. Likewise, A P.E. is an accomplishment and I'm personally proud to have it.

 

[electricpete]

I should clarify my previous post was directed to buzz.

To dannym - I just used your comments to create context for my discussion. I didn't mean to criticize you.... there are plenty of others here that will take up that fight.

 

[BobPE]

dannym:

I agree with you, I just think that to gain any ground on the issue of the PE, its going to take a lot of convincing on non-PE's to accomplish this. I have seen all to many PE's take extreme points of view on not involving themselves with industry exempt engineers and letting them die on the vine. You are right though, there are more excuses not to take the PE than there are legit reasons not to have the PE.

I am proud of my PE also....I think its's a worthy goal for all engineers to achieve....

BobPE

 

[leanne]

dannym, congratulation you have been assimilated by the NSPE. I get the impression you are much younger than (cough, cough, hack, hack) some of us....so let me give you a bit of our perspective as an industry exempt...

Way back when ...in the times of old...(have to set the stage you know...)...when many of us old farts fine upstanding eng-tips contributors graduated from engineering school, the PE requirements were primarily focused on the structural, civil, power, and other disciplines that affect safety of society.

The testing for PE was slanted HEAVILY toward civil and structural when I graduated. The requirements have changed a lot over the years mostly due to the NSPE wanting to bring in the industry exempts into the PE fold. The NSPE has evolved accordingly. Had the PE process today existed when I was in school, I would have done it back then. Back then, I felt like I needed to go back to school & get another engineering degree before I could sit for the PE, so I never did.

It may be true today for new grads that there is no reason for them to NOT take the EIT & then go onto get the PE. But for these old farts fine upstanding eng-tips contributors who've worked successfully for so long under the industry exemption, it's a different story.

Sooo, open up your mind. A mind is like a parachute. It's about worthless when it's closed. Consider our viewpoint & realize that while it may not happen instantaneously (all engineering grads go for PE status), by attrition, it will come around in the long run. There's no need to denegrate us simply because we didn't major in an area where the PE was focused back when we were fresh young engineering grads.

 

[buzzp]

I am merely pointing out that with the work I used to do (albeit, now a PE would be beneficial) as a design engineer a PE license would not open up any doors in product design. There is no conceivable benefit to me to get a PE if I chose to stay in the design world (I intend to return to that area of work). But for now, I purposefully took up a career to get exposure to the so called consultant side of things to round off my experiences.
As far as third party approval issues. This is where some of you fall short of understanding and what I have been pointing out in several other threads. In product design, there are third party agencies that say if your product is safe or not, I am sure you have heard of them, UL, CSA,(amongst others). This third party approval is definately not mandatory but will certainly limit your market as some companies will not purchase products without an approval of some kind (not including a PE stamp). This shifts SOME of the liability to the safety agency depending on the origin of the problem. The company is still responsible to some degree.
Why would an electrical engineer in the product design world want to understand distribution and transmission lines, short circuit analysis of such systems, and even the NEC? And worst of all, why would he/she want to take a test in an area they have not worked in but only studied in college? Makes no sense. The EE world is way to broad and covers way too many areas to apply a blanket test too.
A PE license for a product design engineer might make some sense, I.E. where should bypass capacitors be placed, what types of caps are used for what purposes, how to handle EMC issues. You see my point? Electrical engineers don't just handle transmission and distribution systems. Now if my argument is still extreme that a product design engineer has absolutely no benefit from obtaining a PE, please present your points from a product design engineers point of view. I do agree that a PE might open up some doors, but if your staying in product design forget about your PE.
dannym; I guess there are several thousand companies who are breaking the law by having engineers with 'engineer' in their title. This is totally wrong. The real situation is for a COMPANY to have engineer in their company name is illegal if they are not represented by PE's not the title.

I have never said that a PE means squat. I said it means squat in the product design world. I am in no way bashing PE licensees. My comments come about from someone bashing non PE's, yet again.