Career Change Military Engineer to Design Work

[gendna2]

Hello engineer tips,

I'm looking for some big tips on this subject.

I am currently an officer, doing construction contract management for the DoD. I'm keeping my branch and particulars vague because I don't want someone putting two and two together.

My career will mostly be increasing levels of facility management interspersed with actually leading soldiers.

Bottom line, I don't like my job, I don't like "the game" that officers play, I don't like the fraternity atmosphere around low level officers, and frankly, I think a lot of the processes, and overall things we do, are complete b.s. That's not counting all the side jobs I have, my location, mandatory fun, politically correct training, etc... I don't even like my branch of service for that matter.

Finally, I am regressing mentally at my work. I recently took an passed my PE Exam, so I'm pretty much sitting on a winning lottery ticket as far as I'm concerned, because I'm pretty young to have that PE. In taking that exam, I realized just how dumb I had become as a manager.

Basically, I want to get out of this job, but unlike most people who want to transition out, I want nothing to do with a DoD civilian job and I don't want to see construction management for a while; I'm sick of it. I don't mind working for a consultant designing something for Uncle Sam, but there is no way I will go back to working on the civilian side of my agency; I don't want to see the inside of a base, uniforms, officers, all that stuff, again, I've had it.

I want to get out, and do design work. I'd like to get a master's and go into structural design.

The problem is that most people tell me it's a crazy dream. Once you start down the construction management path, you stay there. A lot of people say structural design is pretty brutal; lower pay than my DoD job and constantly chasing the next project.

It seems to me like the responsible thing to do is to stay in my job, make it a career, but I obviously don't like my job.

Do you guys think being a structural engineer, with military officer credentials, construction management credentials, and a PE, makes it easier to get into the design world? I'm not sure if anyone in the structural design field will care about my military experience.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Nobody will care much about your military experience, but your ability to produce a sitrep and then make a decision may impress, or may frighten.

It will be impossible to make HR weenies understand why you would not want to transition into civilian construction management or into the civilian community that's parasitic to your branch of service, so don't waste your time even talking to them. You will have to 'network' your way into a job you want.
I do think such a job exists, or maybe once did.

Fifty-ish years ago, the second Civil Engineer for whom I worked as a summer draftsman, Bill, remarked that marketing his engineering business took 100 percent of his time, and doing the engineering for his business also took 100 percent of his time. So he was busy, and aggravated much of the time.

The first Civil Engineer for whom I worked as a draftsman, John, also spent a good fraction of his time marketing his business, but when he was in the office, he was calculating continuously (this was in the days Before Computers), and demanded absolute silence throughout the former church that comprised his place of business. ... which I thought unfortunate, because his Chief Draftsman could whistle beautifully, and did, incessantly, when The Boss was not in.

John was not usually aggravated, partially because he had help. A couple of guys worked part time for him, helping with the engineering. I think they were also some kind of part time professors at the nearby engineering school, and were probably able to live fairly well on both incomes, without needing to put in the hours that John or Bill did.

Where I'm sort of going is that The Boss has to work crazy hours and deal with crazy people in order to hurture his business. ... and that most Bosses would love to have someone like you to help them with the technical side of the business. ... and they would _very_ much like to also have your help with the nontechnical side of the business, dealing with crazy customers, incompetent contractors, lying suppliers, sleazy politicians, etc.

... which unfortunately is pretty much the same cast of idiots with whom you've been dealing, only in different uniforms.


Have you got a hobby you could grow into a business?



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[TheTick]

The reason I am in design is because it's what I wanted to do. That is the only reason you need. That's the only answer worth giving.

 

[gendna2]

First, thank you for not burning me on my original comment. I don't really know where to turn to advice, because I'm in a real niche position, with an unusual change in mind.

Second, I wish I had an edit button on this forum, because I want to remove some of the vitriol in my original post. I am thankful for the opportunity I was given, and take my responsibilities as an officer, and steward of your money, seriously. I know that it's 2013 and there are people who would fight, just as I did, through intense training, and reams of bureaucracy, and more, to be in my shoes.

It's just that I don't like the game, and I'm trying to plan early so that I don't wash out when I transition.

To answer your question Mike, I don't think I have a hobby I can grow into a business. I am scared of making my own business, and have the greatest admiration for those that take that plunge, and are successful; it takes a lot of guts.

I want to be a manager at some point, especially on the technical side. I can definitely stomach more b.s. than your average civilian at my age, or so I hope. The military rounds me out and takes me out of my comfort zone on a weekly basis.

One thing I have thought is that maybe, the "construction management" I do on the government side is a lot different than the real CM on the private side. Really, I'm a coordinator and contract supervisor. I herd cats, manage personalities, and apply my attention to detail in order to try and spot problems before they become big problems. But, I don't really manage the construction, the contractor does that.

I got a feeling I'd like DOT type work where Engineers are actual field inspectors, and perform government Quality Control, unlike the DoD where we only do Quality Assurance. I also heard DOTs do some design work too, and rotate you through departments. If anyone has some input on how work for a DOT is like, I'd appreciate it. I'm a structural, surveying, transportation guy, so maybe I'd fit in.

So part of me wonders if maybe I just don't like the DoD's version of Construction Management.

I definitely know that I have a desire to really engineer. Maybe TheTick is right, that's one of the best statements I've read in a while.

...I got a family too. You know, that complicates things, I wonder whether I'll really have the guts to get out and make that career change when the time comes.

 

[GregLocock]

If you red flag your original post the powers that be will insert a modified version if you ask nicely. The NSA will still have a copy though.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[MikeHalloran]

I loved The Tick's response.

As Greg said, the Edit button is a person. Ask nice.

We do have some ExDOT members; I hope they'll contribute.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[urgross]

Before you decide you don't want to own your own business, I'd suggest talking with the SBA and VBA. Many initiatives and incentives exist to transition Veterans to the private sector, and registration as an A-E under the VSOB could open a few doors. Being an engineer and having contract management experience may put you in a better position than may of the existing VOSB and SDVOSB's. Working for DCMC, a DPW or a FOA, you might have more knowledge of the FAR, DFARS, EFARS, AFARS, and EUFARS than the contract officer or specialist you would deal with. Just a thought, don't close doors too quickly. Best boss I've ever had was an Army colonel, also an engineer. You may want to look into SAME chapter meetings, if any in your area.

Not all agencies follow the DoD QA/QC.

The VA has set asides, typically 30%-40%, for VOSB and SDVOSB.

 

[msquared48]

Well, I found myself in the same boat almost 40 years ago now, and left, too, for many of the same reasons. I was not ever a follower and had no intention of ever being one of the group. I got along well with the EM's, but not my officer cohorts. I now have my PE and SE that the military (ACOE) gave me absolutely no experience toward. I had both a 1328 and 1331 MOS. When I left, I was over 8 for pay, with 6 toward my 20.

Personally, I do not know how much time you have in, or time in grade, but for the retirement, that is another issue - could be substantial - and if you have any service related disabilities, that is another consideration. You need to weight these considerations in with the time you have left, considering your family as you mentioned, and make your decision.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[gendna2]

Thank you for the responses, and thanks for not burning me.

@urgross That's a good point, it did not cross my mind because I deal with SDVOSB contractors but I did not consider that there are A-E firms in the same bracket. Oh those VOSB or SDVOSB, boy, if they know what they're doing, they can definitely become successful.

@msquared48 You're a lot like me. Congratulations on attaining your SE, that makes you close to a genius in my book.

I might send you a pm and see how your transition to the design world was like. If you want to share it here, that would be great too.

Working for a DOT sounds good, as long as I can get some design rotations in. Of course, I'm talking optimally here, a job is a job, and I'd be glad to have one. I don't mind doing CM, or inspection work, so long as I can rotate into and out of design during my career or focus on design and then get breaks from it by going to the field. The only thing is that I've heard DOTs, like a lot of Federal agencies, are going to design build, so they're outsourcing their design work.

If anyone has DOT experience, especially from a prior servicemember's perspective, that would be great. I think a guy like me, who got broken into by military bureaucracy would fit as much as anyone can fit, into a DOT type system.