Career in the defense industry 2

[ziggi]

Hey all,
I'm a relatively fresh mechanical engineer (about 3 years out of univ). Ever since I was a kid I was interested in defense technology, I went into engineering primarily b/c of it, why am I not in it now? Long story.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone knew how to get into the defense industry as a young pup.

 

[swertel]

It's who you know, not what you know.

Defense is a big industry. What specific portion are you most interested in? Aerospace, missiles, satellites, airplanes, helicopters, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, thermodynamics, strength of materials, composites, design, analysis, production systems, development, and the list goes on.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376

 

[ziggi]

Hmm I never thought about what particular part I want to go into. Perhaps minimal force maximum output type stuff, remote planes, hi-tech infantry equipment etc etc. Ideally I want to work in defense trade and international defense analysis, so I figure that getting technological experience in the field will be a good idea.

As for knowing people, it's too bad that we immigrated to Canada, b /c my father worked with alot of people in the defense industry back in the day.

 

[mshimko]

If ypou want to work in the defense industry, then identify firms that do DOD work - but this is kind-of obvious.

Location is a question you should be asking - where do you want to live & work; or where is the type of work you want to do located?

Last, but perhaps most importantly - you must have the capability of getting a DOD security clearance. If you're not a US citizen, its extremely difficult.

 

[ziggi]

mshimko,
I don't care about where I live and work too much, as long as it's not somewhere cold ie. Minnesota.
I'm a Canadian citizen so I am looking at the Canadian defense industry, I've also done work in the nuke reactors here, so I have Canadian security clearance...it makes the border crossings much easier .

 

[Barry1961]

Come down and join Marines. You can get some hands on with some high tech infantry stuff and get paid for the training. The best design engineers I know have all spent time on the shop floor learning how the equipment works first hand.

Barry1961, Semper Fi

 

[Compositepro]

Excellent suggestion, Barry. It is very unlikely that someone can become a really good design engineer without some real world experience in operating and maintaining the type of equipment that will be designed. There are many different ways of getting experience, including work on hobbies.

 

[ziggi]

The Canadian forces tried recruiting me right after I graduated, I wasn't too keen on joining then...too bad b/c about a year later I went to a local base's engineering corp and found out that all they really do is sit around and umm do nothing, much like other government engineering positions around here...dammit, I shoulda joined, it would have been fun.
And yes I agree that actually having a hands on feel is the best way to learn about the equipment, however I don't want to design weapons...well maybe some weapons, what I really want to do is get into the economics/trade/international comparatives of defense technology.

 

[harrisj]

ziggi
You say you want to be in the defense industry - but you don't want to design weapons .... I see a kind of paradox here.

I have worked in the industry for over 30 years and it's where the best and most advanced technology happens. In fact my company makes hospitals (military ones) and is into fuel cell technology, UAVs and lots of other interesting things ..... but you have to be clear about a fundamental fact of life:

The defense industry, in any country, any part of it, exists for the purpose of killing people and destroying things. It's not defense, it's primarily offensive. Start in one division, and you may end up designing weapons. If you don't have the stomach for it, don't join (just like signing up to the military).

I appreciate some contributors may have different views, so listen to them too. I recruit engineers for my department and this is the first thing I put to them at interview. I would rather be up-front and honest about my company's defense interests than hope the recruit will be able to rationalize it later.

 

[ziggi]

harrisj,
Don't get me wrong, I don't have any high minded ideal about the defense industry, I am aware that the things I would be working with will more than likely be used to kill people, does it bother me....not really. Anything I may design or sell in any other industry is likely to destroy something, in the defense industry this link just happens to be less opaque. I've already spent quite a bit of time mulling this moral issue over.

I have had exposure to military weaponry before, in fact it was one of the reasons I went into engineering. My father was an engineer with the South African government's defense industry. My childhood summers were spent clambering around tank hulls, watching ejection seats being tested, and seeing wind tunnel testing. My brother-in-law was also an officer in the South Africa Police Force, so by the time I was 12 I had already tried out an assortment of automatic weaponry and I was fully aware of their capability. (The restrictions were a bit more lax in South Africa, back then).

I don't mind doing design work, and I would probably enjoy it immensely. However my experience with design work has been restricted to a computer monitor and calculator. I understand that those are essential tools, but I also know that actually holding and using the technology, or its predecessor, are very important aspects too. Ideally I would want to go out on maneuvers and speak to the people using the equipment and see what they feel would work best, whether it's for a local defense force or a client state, ie. I want to be a sales engineer of sorts.

My point is that I have already had experience with the defense industry and that I feel no qualms about working in it.
I don't want to do design work because it will restrict me to an office. I feel that exposure to the equipment's environment and to the people who will be using it is just as important as the actual design.


BTW, what sort of qualifications does one need to work in the defense industry? Other than an engineering degree and a dose of pragmatism.
And how has the industry treated you?

 

[harrisj]

ziggi:

I'm pleased that you have come to terms with the moral dilemma of working in defense. Everyone needs to do this on their own. I'm happy with it and with the industry which I have worked in since 1975. It has treated me pretty well although defense expenditure cutbacks are hitting hard here in UK and I hear in US as well.

You say:
"I don't want to do design work because it will restrict me to an office. I feel that exposure to the equipment's environment and to the people who will be using it is just as important as the actual design."

That's what every good design engineer should do. The drafter may stay in front of his PC but the engineer should be familiar with the real world and how people use the equipment. Go on exercises with the military (especially Army) and your priorities as a designer will change. What seemed like an elegant solution in the office is strangely un-useful when it won't work because you're cold, wet, tired, miserable and someone's firing bullets at you!

An engineering degree and the dose of pragmatism is a pretty good start to a fulfilling career as a designer in the defense industry. Enjoy.

 

[ziggi]

harrisj,

Quote:
"What seemed like an elegant solution in the office is strangely un-useful when it won't work because you're cold, wet, tired, miserable and someone's firing bullets at you!"

That's half the fun If it were up to me I would be right there on the ground with the grunts, zip lining, crawling around in mud and generally being a nuisance. It's the best way to test anything.

Do you have any suggestions for how to get into the industry?
I cannot take the military route, for medical and financial reasons.

 

[harrisj]

What I'm suggesting is that if you're in the industry you should (eventually) get the opportunity as a civilian to attend / observe / participate in military exercises, or at least tests and trials. Don't expect this in the first week, though.

As for suggestions for getting in to the industry, I only have knowledge of the UK. Over here, the big defense companies (there's only BAE Systems and Thales - they've bought most of the smaller companies up) have graduate recruitment schemes. It is often easier (and more fun) to apply to smaller comapnies who contract to the big boys.

While the US defense industry is also dominated by big names, there are plenty of small firms who might take you on. Find out who are exhibitors at the big defense trade fairs, and write to them. Once you've got a foot on the ladder, you have some defense engineering credentials, and you can move onward and upward. Good luck.

 

[SomeYahoo]

Try USAJobs.com... civilians working directly for the military, typically on-base. Don't know if there is a Canadian equivalent though.

 

[IRstuff]

There are plenty of defense companies in Canada, many of which supply both the US and Canadian defense needs. You could start at:

http://www.defenselist.com/directory/defense/

and see which ones have divisions in Canada.

TTFN

 

[mshimko]

"Security Clearance Job Fairs".

I see these occasionally advertised in the Washington DC area. They are aimed at Department of Defence contractors and prospective employees. Current security clearances are not typically required, but they help (my daughter got her first job out of college through one of these, but she was lucky to have a clearance from a previous position as a paid intern).

I'm not sure how common these type job fairs are in other areas. You could research these job fairs and travel to the DC area to attend one, it may be a way to talk to a number of firms in one or two days.

 

[ziggi]

Thanks for all the info gents, I really appreciate all your help.

BTW are there alot of defense companies located in Washington DC. I ask b/c I plan on going for my Master's (Business Admin and International Security Studies) there in a few years.

 

[mshimko]

"Are there a lot of defense companies located in the Washington DC area?"

I doubt if a national defense company exists that doesn't have at least an office in the DC area. You name the company, and they probably have hundreds, if not thousands, of employees in this area.

There are two reasons: this is where the decisions are made (the Pentagon, congress), and this is where many of the larger military commands are located.

There are drawbacks, mind you. Cost of housing, congestion and traffic, can't get away from Washington politics, etc.

 

[IRstuff]

There are a number of companies ("Beltway Bandits") that service the Pentagon and the Army laboratories at Fort Belvoir in the DC area and the Army Materiel Command located in the same area.

Maryland has the Aberdeen Proving Ground.

Further north Are Fort Monmouth, NJ and the US Navy's Lakehurst, NJ facility.

TTFN

 

[SWhit]

There are Jobs with the US army, navy, and air force working in aircraft maintenance. I am not sure, but I suppose there are maintenance engineering jobs for other fields as well. Check on usajobs.gov.