Ceramic backing factories?

[kingnero]

I am in need of a ceramic backing with a particular geometry.
I have asked the known suppliers in Europe (Esab, Böhler, Lincoln, ... and some of the larger wholesellers) and none of them have anything in stock that would suit, and they do not want to disclose their supplier (I suppose they also buy it from a producer, and sell it under their name).

The quantity is likely large enough for a producer to start a batch. Does anyone known a producer of such ceramic backing strips, preferably in Europe, but I'll take anywhere) ?

Thanks in advance,

 

[dhengr]

Kingnero:
Google ‘ceramic welding backing,’ there are a bunch of suppliers and manufacturers.

 

[kingnero]

Thanks for thinking along. I've been in contact with about all of the suppliers on the first two and a half pages of results, none of them had something similar as what I want in stock or as a standard product. Lots of suppliers, but not a lot of manufacturers though.
I'm awaiting answer right now from another manufacturer, they said they'll have the right person calling me back. Let's hope for the best...

 

alibaba ...?

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[sbisteel]

If ceramic doesn't pan out, maybe it'd be easier to find someone willing to make a unique copper backing bar?

 

[TugboatEng]

Or change your design to work with standard products.

 

[btrueblood]

What's unique about your backing - complex curvature, intersecting weld joints, or unique cross-section of the weldment? The aluminum foil and segmented ceramic tapes (Gullco et. al.) don't work?

Dunno about Europe, but here are a list of US suppliers -

https://www.thomasnet.com/products/ceramic-weld-backing-95928636-1.html

IF those don't pan out, suggest you look for ceramics suppliers in general...or talk to a local pottery shop?

 

[weldstan]

My experience with Cerbaco in the past was that they produceed some specially designed backers to sui tour needs.

 

[kingnero]

@ Tug, btrueblood: We're welding heavy crane rails in situ. Think about 1" open groove.
The groove in the backing needs to be significantly wider than that, and deeper than standard because it's a heavy slag wire that needs to go somewhere.

@ sbisteel, we're seeing cracking in the bottom layers from copper pickup. We're welding slow and with high amps.
Using thicker copper bars or water cooled blocks isn't working, some of these are 100 ft in the air. And we can't lift the rails high enough to slide 'em under.

@ IM: yes, that's another option we might pursue if our current option doesn't work out: one supplier makes a proprietary geometry for another client, that would work perfectly for this application. If they can sell it to us, we're good to go.

@ Weldstan: thanks, I added Cerbaco to the list. I wasn't aware of this company.

 

Copper is useful provided you do not have direct arc impingement. That's why it works well for the electroslag process.

The problem with hard ceramic chips is that the joint needs to be very precise and consistent along its length.


"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[kingnero]

I fully agree, however copper is in many cases the most convenient material to work with.
Here's however the result of welding on Cu (small cracks are made visible using red dye):

We've got some tolerance, but it is very much achievable using the cermaic backing.
It appears that what's in the catalog of cermaic backing factories, is about half of what they produce... They make lots of custom geometries.

 

[meltedEng]

KingNero,

Check out Precision Ceramics USA.

https://precision-ceramics.com/

I've used them to make special ceramics of the size you are talking. They made us pieces much much bigger than you are mentioning.
Be aware ceramics of this size are sensitive to thermal shocking.

 

[kingnero]

Thx for the info!

 

[weldstan]

About 30 years ago, we were developing welding procedures for a very similar application. We first tried 3M ceeramic backer and then switched to those from Cerbaco which provided musch better resistance to thermal shock cracking. Tever had a problem with the root bead. Cann't say the same for welding the thin neck of the rail.