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China Bridge Fails 1
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msquared48
Structural
This is one of China's bridges for their own people (and tourists), and is there any wonder about the other "products" you buy from China? But, that's another topic for another forum.
Sorry, but no surprises here.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
Sorry, but no surprises here.
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
bridgebuster
Active member
From the Yahoo Article:
"An editorial in the official China Daily on Tuesday warned that thousands of the country's bridges were unsafe. "If left unrepaired these bridges may crumble at any time, wreaking economic havoc and possibly claiming human lives," it said.""
Notcie how economic havoc was more important than a few human lives.
"An editorial in the official China Daily on Tuesday warned that thousands of the country's bridges were unsafe. "If left unrepaired these bridges may crumble at any time, wreaking economic havoc and possibly claiming human lives," it said.""
Notcie how economic havoc was more important than a few human lives.
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DarthSoilsGuy
Geotechnical
For those of you who like stories to tie together.
here is a NY Times story that ran a week after the Twin Cities Bridge Disaster and two weeks before this one. Noted Civil Eng. author Henry Petrosky discusses the great bridge works going on in China relative to the USA geriatic infrastructure.
here is a NY Times story that ran a week after the Twin Cities Bridge Disaster and two weeks before this one. Noted Civil Eng. author Henry Petrosky discusses the great bridge works going on in China relative to the USA geriatic infrastructure.
Robertmet
Materials
- Aug 5, 2007
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But you can get one at Wally World for $ 19.95 !!.....More seriously I wonder about the quality of the big dam they built ??
"At least 123 workers were at the site of the arched concrete bridge"
That doesn't sound like cable stayed/girder.
I don't know that this particular incident says anything about China specifically. We've had US bridges collapse during construction (generally on smaller scale), recently had a post about some building floors collapsing during construction. That's a problem, but not necessarily a design problem in the finished structure.
That doesn't sound like cable stayed/girder.
I don't know that this particular incident says anything about China specifically. We've had US bridges collapse during construction (generally on smaller scale), recently had a post about some building floors collapsing during construction. That's a problem, but not necessarily a design problem in the finished structure.
msquared48
Structural
To quote Charlton Heston... "Flesh and blood makes poor mortar." - The Ten Commandments
(I may have tweeked this a bit here)
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
(I may have tweeked this a bit here)
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
1)The bridge is a concrete (or CMU?) arch bridge, which is a traditional bridge system used in China. They are still trying to figure out what went wrong. But I do not appreciate the attitude to quickly jump to criticize all the construction works (and other products) done in China. I am sure there are many poor construction projects in China due to inadequate design, poor construction, and so on. But I am also pretty sure that the design and construction of many other projects are excellent, including the big dam. China is now similar to the stage US used to be several decades ago when the economy started to boom. Read a little bit history and you will find a lot of similar stories by then.
2)TY Lin international is an excellent firm. The hybrid bridge system is a simple but good idea for bridges with short or medium spans. I like this idea.
2)TY Lin international is an excellent firm. The hybrid bridge system is a simple but good idea for bridges with short or medium spans. I like this idea.
rt06, my comments were aimed at the legal/regulatory system.
If I recall correctly wasn't the head of the food safety agency convicted of negligence or something recently in light of some of the food scares etc and wasn't he sentenced to death?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
If I recall correctly wasn't the head of the food safety agency convicted of negligence or something recently in light of some of the food scares etc and wasn't he sentenced to death?
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
To elaborate a bit on rt06's comments. China's educational system & technical skills suffered during the Cultural Revolution, so even now many growing pains in its fast-developing economy. It wasn't until 1984 that Deng Xiaoping said "To get rich is glorious" and allowed significant private entrepreneurship. The genie was let out of the bottle in an country in which companies had hitherto been run by the government/Red Army without regard to quality or consumer safety or pollution. Ergo, lots of development, robber barons and corrupt officials. For many years, the Chinese government kept disasters secret. Significantly, the the state-controlled media as quoted above is not only acknowledging them, but pointing out widespread safety problems in coal mines, factories and building sites. It's a subtle way of using public opinion to rein in corrupt contractors and bribe-taking officials.
bridgebuster,
I haven't read the full article from which you quote "wreaking economic havoc and possibly claiming human lives" but from that sentence I don't see that there is any suggestion that the economic havoc would be more important than the loss of life.
I haven't read the full article from which you quote "wreaking economic havoc and possibly claiming human lives" but from that sentence I don't see that there is any suggestion that the economic havoc would be more important than the loss of life.
I found a link about what I was comparing it to.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Evidence (with video) that expensive bridges can collapse without loss of human life:
I had caught a glimpse of the failed bridge on TV and made a comment to my wife that it looked like there was no reinforcing in the concrete, especially in one picture of a (arched) deck span.
bridgebuster
Active member
Zambo - shouldn't preserving life come first?
In seismic bridge design, the philosophy is "no collapse", meaning we're not worried if the bridge will be rendered unusable, we just don't want it to collapse and injure or kill someone.
Granted, when a facilty is destroyed it creates economic havoc - case in point: The World Trade Center.
But what's more important?
In seismic bridge design, the philosophy is "no collapse", meaning we're not worried if the bridge will be rendered unusable, we just don't want it to collapse and injure or kill someone.
Granted, when a facilty is destroyed it creates economic havoc - case in point: The World Trade Center.
But what's more important?
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