CIDECT - What is going on?

[EngDM]

I was looking into a connection into HSS, and noticed that one of the checks for wall thickness is not from CISC or AISC standards, but is instead from CIDECT. However, I went to their website to get their design guides, but it states that all activity is on hold and all downloads and contacts are on hold as well. Does anyone know how long this has been going on for? I don't want to end up having to pay for a design guide online from like scribd, when they used to provide it for free.

With them being on hold, how does it affect their standards? Are they still enforceable? There is nothing in CISC for this specific check stating you need to consider it but RISA is obviously checking it for a reason.

 

[dik]

Which publication(s) are you looking for?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[EngDM]

I'm looking for CIDECT Design Guide 1.

 

[dik]

Check my profile...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[robyengIT]

from CIDECT I have (PDF): "hollow sections in structural applications" - Wardenier - 2001 and same title but Wardenier/Packer/Zhao/van der Vegte - 2010.
They are copies free of charges - for educational purposes only.
Furthermore "structural stability of hollow sections" - Wardenier/Yeomans/Rundel/Wurker/Dutta -ed. Verlag ed. CIDECT(where, at beginning,there is a title-page 'CIDECT construction with hollow steel section' - 1992).
Ready to let you have a link for download

 

[Ussuri]

All the links appear blocked.

 

[JT-1995]

The error is still happening at CIDECT. I am interested in reading the information in Design Guide 3. Does anyone know how to find the information? Thank you.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

I believe the CIDECT design guides can be found at the following address... which is working for me.

https://www.cidect.org/design-guides/

 

[robyengIT]

CIDECT DG 3 : you can download from here

https://dokumen.tips/documents/cide...tangular-hollow-section-rhs-joints-under.html

PS : I found that if you search for CIDECT DG 1 or CIDECT DG 2,etc, you can download each DG on the same site above indicated (dokumen.tips etc etc)

 

[dauwerda]

Josh, click the download button on that site and see what happens.

 

[robyengIT]

I succeded in downloading the following doc : let me know if I have to share the links

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Josh, click the download button on that site and see what happens.

Ahhhh, I thought the whole website was broken, not just the downloads. Sorry for the confusion.

I have a downloaded copy of some of the pdfs that I could send to someone in private. I won't post anything on line because of potential copyright issues. I've got DG 1, 2, 3 and 9.

I should also point out that if HSS for CISC was added when I was a RISA (and I'm guessing it was), then this was when I was attending the twice yearly AISC committee meetings. So, I may have pestered Jeffrey Packer (Universtity of Toronto) about what criteria people in Canada were using at the time. I don't have any specific memory of doing so. But, it sounds like something I would have done.

There was a time in the 2015 through 2017 time frame where I had handed off the day to day management of the RISAConnection project to another engineer. My guess is that this was during that time frame and is the reason why I can't remember the details. But, as long as I was still there, the company would not have been willy nilly with their reasoning for using Cidect.... Though, it's possible that the reasoning didn't make it's way into the documentation.

For what it's worth, the very capable engineer who I handed RISAConnection off to left not long after I did. So, I doubt anyone at RISA has any real knowledge of the reasoning behind this.... Too much turn over in staff. Maybe there is a record in the "enhancement / development" request database. I just don't know.

Disclaimer:
I worked for RISA for 16 years under the original ownership and was the top engineering / technical voice for the company during much of that time. However, I was pushed out of the company when it was taken over by some foreign company (Numetschent?) whose name I refuse to learn how to spell or pronounce.
I still harbor some hard feelings towards that company, so my personal animus towards the current management may bias my comments and such bias should be taken into account when reading any statements from me about the current (vastly inferior) version of company known as RISA.

 

[JT-1995]

Thanks to all for the notes about CIDECT.

I made my google search a little more specific like robyengIT suggested. I have found Design Guide 3 and 9 online. For those in the future, specifically worded net searches and then scrolling down the list of found pages probably will reveal pages where it is possible to download the CIDECT guides.

These documents are helpful (more helpful than I found AISC 360) but the design of very simple horizontally oriented, welded, T connections between two HSS's is still not crystal clear. If the connection happens to not be "uniplaner", well that is another ball of wax. I have several of these connections pop up in my designs, by judgement I can look at them and say all is ok but I would love to be able to calculate it more clearly.

 

[dauwerda]

JT-1995, take a look at the Steel Tube Institute's Design Manuals as well as AISC Design guide 24.

https://steeltubeinstitute.org/hollow-structural-sections/hss-manuals/

https://www.aisc.org/Design-Guide-24-Hollow-Structural-Section-Connections

Much of Design Guide 24 was also part of chapter K of AISC 360 until 2016, so you could also take a look at the 2010 spec which is available for free, here:

https://www.aisc.org/products/publi...tural-steel-buildings-ansiaisc-360-10---2010/

AISC also has it's old HSS spec available here:

https://www.aisc.org/publications/h...for-the-design-of-hollow-structural-sections/

I also have all of the CIDECT design guides, so if you are having trouble finding one, let me know and I'm sure we can figure out a way to share it.

 

[JT-1995]

Thanks dauwerda. It seems you have some experience with these so if I could bother you with one of my overarching questions.

In regard to the tables in Section K of AISC360 (specifically K3.2 in 360-10 or K4.2 in 360-22) the formulas seem to be derived for a vertically oriented branch. Examining that closer, it appears the branch is connected to the width (B) of the chord and the moment load is oriented bending in what we may call the "weak" direction. I believe this is all because these codes started development because of HSS TRUSS designs not horizontal beam designs...maybe.

So if you agree with any of the above, if I am designing a T connection of a horizontal HSSS12x8x3/8 branch beam Teeing into the 12" face of a horizontal HSS12x8x3/8 chord beam. So to determine the flexural strength I need to flip flop all of the H and B variables. Does that seem right?

In the end, the frame I am designing can have simple shear connections at these connections or fully fixed at these connections and the the frame still behaves just fine. Note, the frame is stout because deflections and other movements are detrimental to the equipment being supported so stress in the members is not driving the design. So I find myself going around in circles trying to find the best way to put a pencil to these joint designs knowing the "fully fixed" member reactions and also the separate "fully pinned" member reactions. The plan was to make sure all the wall thicknesses and welds would suffice for the in between reality of fixity. Thank you for reading!

 

[dauwerda]

JT-1995, so as not to hijack this thread any further, I am responding to your other thread:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=507166

 

[robyengIT]

a bit off-topic : why there should be a copyright problem if, previously, the publications were free downloadable ?
1 - The authors have been paid "una tantum" (I guess)
2 - the CIDECT Association organized and allowed the free distribution of the DGs
3 - for an unknown reason the WEB site is not working, for how long we don't know (if it will work again)
4 - nobody of us will get any profit in arranging available such a files, other than the satisfaction to help somebody else in trouble
5 - increased/enanced possibility to save useful docs (SRE docet)
6 - in (near) future these docs will be out-of-date (completely or partially) because of new standards/researches/materials

My apologies, but I don't understand