Code Accreditation for Mills

[SnTMan]

I am trying to find an ASME publication describing the process by which a material manufacturer is granted and retains approval to manufacture and apply the required marking to product forms such plate, tubing, pipe, flanges, bolting, etc.

My company is involved in a paperwork snarl of epic proportion in attempting to certify some of our little piece-of-crap, but ASME stamped, air coolers to a shipboard standard. The agency involved classifies these coolers in such a way that design review is not required, but materials to approved specs from approved manufaturers are required.

These coolers normally are built from stock ASME materials. We are trying to be granted a deviation by proving that the ASME accreditition process is equivalent to the process used by the involved agency, and together with MTR's to persuade involved agency to accept these materials.

We cannot of course just purchase from the approved manufacturers unless the material in question is certifed to ASME as well as the ship standards, which I doubt it.

Anybody know of which publication applies?

Regards,

Mike

 

[stanweld]

Go to the ASME Web site at asme.org.

 

[SnTMan]

stanweld, that much I knew, I just don't know which publication is the right one, there are many, many.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[SJones]

Define 'approval' and 'required marking'. Take ASME SA-20: there are no 'approval' clauses and 'required marking' is addressed in 13.1. Are you simply getting into an ISO 9001, sub-clause 7.4.1/Certification Authority requirement to have a documented basis for using the suppliers that you have used? Or, were they expecting you to use suppliers from their listing, like DNV's for example:

https://exchange.dnv.com/DNVX/ApprovedPublic/ApprovedProductsAndManufacturers.html

?

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/cv/11499664

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[CodeRef]

Below is a link to the GUIDE FOR ASME REVIEW TEAMS FOR REVIEW OF APPLICANTS FOR ASME CERTIFICATES OF AUTHORIZATION (A, M, PP, S, E, V, HV, H, HLW, H (Cast Iron), UD, UV, UV3, U, UM, U2, U3, RP, T, TD, TV)

http://files.asme.org/asmeorg/Codes/CertifAccred/Certification/810.pdf

Perhaps a particular Code Section or publication/paper giving guidance as to the use of alternative materials acceptable to ASME? Perhaps like the following link:

http://files.asme.org/asmeorg/codes/9383.pdf

FAQ731-376

 

[CodeRef]

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sect...iles/comparative_study_summary_07_2004_en.pdf

FAQ731-376

 

[stanweld]

As far as I am aware, ASME does not certify materials manufacturers except for Nuclear. For further info, email infocentral@asme.org or call 1-800-843-2763.

 

[SnTMan]

SJones, yes, it appears that DNV (the involved agency I referred to in my OP) expects us to use materials to DNV specifications from DNV approved suppliers. We have certified these (Class III) coolers to DNV on a few previous occasions and there was no problem with the agency accepting ASME materials for use in ASME designs. Per the rules we are told are applicable, it appears there is ample basis for accepting ASME materials.

The surveyor involved has a different opinion.

Stanweld, I had sort of thought that mills must have something similair to a C of A to produce materials to ASME specs, but maybe this is not so? Are they "self insured" so to speak?

Thanks to all,

Mike

 

[SnTMan]

After digging back through the papertrail on this job, I believe I can sharpen my question a bit, i.e.:

What, in the ASME world, might correspond to a DNV "Works Certificate"?

Defined as: Works Certificate (W)
A document signed by the manufacturer stating:
- conformity with rule requirements
- that tests are carried out on the certified product itself
- that tests are made on samples taken from the certified
product itself
- that tests are witnessed and signed by a qualified department
of the manufacturers.

Per DNV, this is apparently not satisfied by the MTR's.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[metengr]

SnTMan;

What, in the ASME world, might correspond to a DNV "Works Certificate"?

Nothing at the moment within the scope of Section I or Section VIII.

 

[SnTMan]

metengr, what about Sec II?

 

[metengr]

SnTMan;
I am able to review and comment on ASME BPVC letter ballots and I have seen nothing on the horizon for this activity.

 

[SnTMan]

metengr, I'm a little more curious about this whole issue now.

So, I open a mill and make plate and forgings, say. I represent them as meeting ASME specs and mark them as such. Is there any independent oversight of my activities aside from test reports, or is it entirely on me?

Regards,

Mike

 

[metengr]

Mike;
For ASME B&PV Code material or even ASTM material being certified, as such, it is all based on honesty/integrity of the Supplier, and the Purchaser must source check and/or audit/police or have someone audit/police their own product at the mill. Sorry, but true. Purchaser beware!

 

[SnTMan]

metengr, understood and thanks. Not necessarily a bad system, works well for the most part. Like anything else, some suppliers you trust, some you don't.

Regards,

Mike

 

[stanweld]

If you pay for it and the manufacturer is reputable, you can always obtain third party certification on the CMTR's.

 

[SnTMan]

stanweld, yes true.

Relating to my original problem, by obtaining and reading yet another DNV spec, I think I can see a way forward. A couple of days of "lawyer" work, and we'll see.

Thanks to all for the input.

Mike

 

[GenB]

easy. 1st ask one of your mfrs to provide their QCM
with supporting docs. ASTM/ ASME/ISO, etc.
ASME Sect II defines all the materials mfg requirements,
includes ASTM materials. A mfr who certifies shall have authorizations to even use the names ASTM AND ASME
when materials are stamped/stencil.
There are cheaters of course who put glue to cover flange pinholes...

 

[SnTMan]

GenB,

A mfr who certifies shall have authorizations to even use the names ASTM AND ASME...

What is your basis for this statement? Who authorizes?

Thanks,

Mike