Code Ed. Add used for NBIC

[PVinspector]

My memory told me the NBIC says if you are altering an older Code vessel, you must either use the Edition/Addenda of the original vessel, or the current Ed./Ad, but I cannot find that info in the NBIC. Any help?
Thanks.

 

[CodeRef]

Please see paragraph RC-1020
When the standard governing the original construction is the ASME Code, repairs and alterations shall conform, insofar as possible, to the section and edition of the ASME Code most applicable to the work planned.

Also look at NBIC Interpretation 98-14 which gives a laundry list of items that must be satisfied when later editions/addenda of the original code of construction are the basis for the alteration, because these later editions (98Ed/00Add and on) will permit higher allowable stresses than previous. Take note that one item in the list states that the pressure-retaining item was constructed to the 1968 Edition or later edition/addenda of the original code of construction.

See this link to the National Board website where this interpretation can be found:

http://www.nationalboard.org/NationalBoard/Nbic/Interpretation/1998/Interpretation_1998.aspx

There are three kinds of people in this world; those who can count and those who can't.

 

[CodeRef]

Please note the change in the ASME Allowable Stress safety factor was changed from 4.0 to 3.5 with the A99 Addenda to the 1998 Edition and not the 98Ed/00Add as I stated in the previous.... just to be correct.....Although, there were Code Cases previous to this Addenda which allowed the higher stresses and any Alteration should take this into consideration as well......


There are three kinds of people in this world; those who can count and those who can't.

 

[metengr]

Do you have a copy of the 2004 Edition/2006 Addendum of the NBIC? If so, for altering vessels refer to the specific sections below, and associated rules in these sections regarding using the Code of Construction;

RC-3000 and RD-3000

 

[PVinspector]

I do have a 2004 Ed, 2006 Ad of NBIC, and I looked at all the referenced areas. I cannot find any reference to using Current ASME Construction Code (i.e. VIII, IV) for an alteration, and it looks like nobody else can either. If the reference/requirement does not exist, that knowledge is also helpful. I guess if an 'R' stamp only holder decides to alter a vessel built in 1994 and uses 2001 Code books (in 2007) because they don't want to buy new ones, there is nothing in the NBIC that says they cannot, which is bad in my opinion. If anyone knows of a specific referenc stating that Alteration design calc.s must comply with either the Code Edition the vessel was built to, or current Edition, please advise. Thanks.

 

[metengr]

I cannot find any reference to using Current ASME Construction Code (i.e. VIII, IV) for an alteration, and it looks like nobody else can either.

Reply; It is there. Repairs and Alterations are covered in Parts RC and RD. Please read RC-1000, this is referenced in RC-3000.

Alterations can be performed using a later or earlier edition of the applicable Code of Construction (ASME B&PV Code) provided your Inspector and the Jurisdiction, if applicable, agree, and the age of the vessel.

 

[CodeRef]

PV Inspector,

Work needs a plan; plans require approval, RC-1000/RC-1020 of the "current" NBIC states that any edition or addenda of the NBIC "insofar as possible" and "most applicable to the work planned" is suitable.

The AI, competent within the applicable jurisdictional rules, will help explain to you the NBIC requirements specific to the Jurisdiction where work is planned.

Does your jurisdiction mandate the most recent NBIC for repairs and alterations?

Not all Jurisdictions adopt the most recent NBIC automatically; it usually requires review by the jurisdiction. Just check out the NB Synopsis (NB-370) found at the National Board website and look under any jurisdiction to see which Edition/Addenda is “approved” or “adopted”.

You state that an R-stamp holder may choose to use “older” Code Books because “they do not want to buy new ones”, and subsequently place blame on the NBIC for “allowing” this to occur since it is not “clearly” stated in the NBIC. This is the reason for the AI’s presence and concurrence and where the AI, following the duties and responsibilities given in NB-263 paragraph 8.2.2, is required to verify the R-stamp holder has possession of the most recent NBIC.

PS. Metengr is correct and more specific when referencing RC-3000 and RD-3000 for Alterations where I earlier referenced the Interpretation 98-14. The referenced paragraphs now incorporate the list specified in 98-14 as of the 06 Addenda.



There are three kinds of people in this world; those who can count and those who can't.

 

[PVinspector]

CodeJackal,

Actually, I didn't say "and subsequently place blame on the NBIC for “allowing” this to occur since it is not “clearly” stated in the NBIC." I'm not sure where that came from. I am an AI, and I would tell my client to use current ASME Construction Code books before I would approve an alteration, or at least borrow some and verify that the design meets current rules. I only wondered if the NBIC stated that you are required to somewhere. Both CodeJackal and Metengr make good points, and I appreciate your input. You are reading your good ideas and practices into the NBIC, and they make sense, but I really wanted to verify if the NBIC specifies current construction code, or original. Apparently it does not, but of course the AIA and/or jurisdiction must approve so they can apply that rule. I don't have a philosophical problem with the way the NBIC addresses ASME Code editions. Somebody told me the alteration must be the original Code, or the Current Code (meaning ASME Construction Code, not NBIC) and I gave up on locating it, and wondered I just could not find it or it was not there. Thanks much for you ideas.

 

[CodeRef]

I guess if an 'R' stamp only holder decides to alter a vessel built in 1994 and uses 2001 Code books (in 2007) because they don't want to buy new ones, there is nothing in the NBIC that says they cannot, which is bad in my opinion.

PVinspector,
Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. In quoting your words above that it may be bad in your opinion that the NBIC does not mandate the use of the latest mandated version of the NBIC, I understand and agree with you. If I had my wish, I would love to see the Jurisdictions that "Adopt" or "Accept" and administer the NBIC within their state rules, have the ability to invoke the “latest” Edition/Addenda in their state rules. As an AI in the State of Wisconsin, the rules reference the 2004 Edition of all the Codes, and when I ask why they do not reference with a statement such as the “latest edition”, their response is that the legislature would not agree with it and a “formal” review of each new Edition/Addenda each year would be required. With limited resources, the State makes their decision to review the Codes once every three years or as often as they revise their State Codes. I would guess that the NBIC understands this dilemma and has chosen it’s words carefully but deliberately.

So, it depends on where you are (Jurisdiction) and how much influence each Chief Inspector is given within that Jurisdiction as to how to administer their Code rules.

regards,


There are three kinds of people in this world; those who can count and those who can't.

 

[AIAIAANI]

Mind that R stamp may be used on pressure items constructed to other Codes, as well.
Mauro