Coil or strip? 1

[alextar]

Hello.
I have this disagreement with one of our product engineers.
We are in search of 4130 coil. We have a spec ASTM-A-505 that talks about sheet and strip only. My opinion is that strip and coil are the same things. And he doubts that. Please could anyone refer us to a written document that would confirm that I am right or wrong.
Thanks in advance.
Alex.

 

[metengr]

Your product engineer is correct. Strip and coil are not the same. Coil is a term used to describe how a product is supplied - coil of wire, or coil of strip or coil of sheet.

Here is a basic definition below;

http://www.metal-mart.com/Dictionary/dictletc.htm\

 

[NickE]

Strip and coil are different things. Coil is the form the steel comes in. Strip and sheet designations are a result of size of the cut.


From SAE J126:


2. Procedure...

B-- Sheet or Strip -- Principal factors to consider in determining whether sheet or strip should be specified are:
Size of part, or more specifically, size of flat steel required to develop part.


From table 1A:

Product           | Thickness   |  Width     | Other      |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hot rolled sheet  | .045 ->.230 | >12" -> 48"| coil and   |
                  | .045 ->.180 | >48"       | cut lengths|
                  |----------------------------------------
                  | .230 ->.500 |>12" -> 48" | coil only  |
                  | .180 ->.500 |>48" -> 72" |            |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hot rolled strip  | .045 ->.203 |     -> 6"  | coil and   |
                  | .045 ->.229 |>6"  -> 12" | cut lengths|
                  |----------------------------------------
                  | .230 ->.500 |>8"  -> 12" | coil only  |
-----------------------------------------------------------

Also Note3 on the same table states: Widths 2-12in with thicknesses of .014-.082 are classified as "sheet" when slit from wider coils, have a cut edge only, and carbon of .25%max by cast analysis.

IE: both sheet and strip are available in coil form or in flats.

 

[EdStainless]

In some of the ASTM spect they are only different becuse of their size. You need to find which spec you are using and make sure that you sitck with the correct terminology.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.

http://www.trenttube.com/Trent/tech_form.htm

 

[alextar]

Hello, everyone.
Let me rephrase my question.
Is there a separate spec for coil? Because the spec I have is specified for sheet, strip and plate. Not a word about coil.
Thanks in advance,
Alex.

 

[NickE]

Sheet and strip are both generally available as either coil or flats. You would normally specifiy delivery form when making the dimensional. IE:

.061/.064 x 4.6 x coil SAE J403:1010 #4 temper, #3 edge, max skid 2000lbs. min ID 24"

or if you wanted a bunch of 8' flats:

.0612/.064 x 4.6 x 96 SAE J403:1010 #4 temper, #3 edge, Max lift 1000lbs.

As Far As I Know there is no separate dimensional spec for ordering flats. All you do is define a length and tolerance and the service center will provide to meet your order.

 

[alextar]

Thanks a lot NickE.
Unfortunately my product engineer is not convinced by "As Far As I Know" thing. He keeps telling me that strip and coil are two different things. When I try to explain that coil is a form of handling of a very long strip, my body gets lost. Is there anything in writing about this topic?

 

[EdStainless]

Strip and sheet are products, length and coil are dimensions.
If you read A480 for stainless you will find,
"Dimensional tolernaces are grouped by production method (hot rolling or cold rolling, with or without coiling), product width (narrow [<24"] or wide [>24']), and by product dimension addressed."
In otherword there are different tolernaces for cut sheet vs coiled sheet, and cut strip vs coiled strip. Soon there will also be different tolerances for plate in pieces (palte mill plate) vs coiled plate.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.

http://www.trenttube.com/Trent/tech_form.htm

 

[NickE]

I know how product engineers can be... LOL with this one.

As EdStainless has said:
"length and coil are dimensions"

The AFAIK statement comes from two years in the secondary steel industry. IE: I used to interpret customer specs, or their cutomers prints to determine how to provide the steel.

In Summary:
Strip can be bought in coil or in flat.

Sheet can be bought in coil or in flat.

This is kinda like the cognac vs brandy idea: All cognac is brandy but not all brandy is cognac.

IE: All strip is available as coil or flat. All sheet is also available as coil or flat. BUT not all coil is strip, nor are all flats sheet. (and ViceVersa: not all coil is sheet nor are all flats strip)

Again Good Luck convincing the obstinate Project Eng.

 

[alextar]

Thanks, guys.
Just now our purchasing got two quotes for the coil under the spec that didn't mention the word "coil".
So now I hope he will give up.
Thanks again everybody.

 

[monkeydog]

alextar,
Be glad your purchasing guy has to see it in writing, otherwise he would be listening to what the marketing guys are saying on the other end of the phone "Ahhh stainless is stainless"

 

[EdStainless]

I'll add a practical note.
You see strip ordered as 0.063" x 3.020" x coil.
We have a specification that calls out tolernaces for gage and width, describes edge condition, and has a minimum required coil size in pounds-per-inch-of-width (PIW). Of course you also have to specify the core diameter and max coil size.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.

http://www.trenttube.com/Trent/tech_form.htm