Companies putting you in a box. 5

[Fischstabchen]

This won't be groundbreaking or anything but it is just a comment about how companies, especially large companies tend to put people in boxes, especially at larger companies. Companies put people in these boxes, train them for these boxes, and then appraise them only for what they do inside of their box. These boxes tend to be incredibly small and well defined because people often move onto another company or box every 3-4 years. This creates an entire workforce that has been trained, promoted, and assessed for a small number of small boxes. So, instead of someone moving up that well rounded and capable of improvising, you have someone that has made a career of staying in their box and never risking making a mistake. It is like comparing jazz being played Miles Davis to an 11th grader playing off of sheet music or telling Miles Davis to quit improvising and stick to what's on the sheet. It almost feels like the intent is to manage and create an uninspired, disposable, mediocre, and replacable workforce.

 

[phamENG]

You want mostly that, and then a small number of people who can be inspired, improvise, and adapt...but not too much lest they leave. You wouldn't design a circuit with transistors that are free to wander off at will would you? So you must design a company that keeps people where they are by whatever means are necessary (and legal, of course).

Cynical? Sure. Accurate? Probably.

 

[glass99]

There is a large consulting engineering firm which does tall buildings here in NYC which shall remain nameless - you either get to design beams or columns, but not both.

 

[phamENG]

Bet there's a big fight when you get a beam-column....

 

[glass99]

@phameng: Ha. I think they needed to install bars on the windows in the office to stop people hurling themselves out

 

[phamENG]

No kidding. Always thought it would be nice to have a building where column design matters (99% of my projects have a column utilization of about 0.15 by the time I proportion them for connection geometry), but I'll take my remarkably diverse and ever changing work over....that.

 

[3DDave]

A US Supreme Court lawsuit (KSR INT’L CO. v. TELEFLEX INC. (No. 04-1350)) involved testimony from a guy who spent 20 years (or so) designing accelerator pedals. One Justice remarked on the lack of creativity required for that job; the case revolved around whether adding a position sensor to an accelerator pedal was novel and therefore protectable by patent.

I think it also included discussing preventing raccoons from entering a garage.

Found it:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2006/04-1350.pdf

Breyer. The experts say it's not obvious and the reason
nobody did it for 12 years and the reason that Asano was
never combined with an electronic throttle control is
explained in the record in this case and it's twofold.

The first is, and I have to take you now to the picture
of Asano because that's what the claim that is supposed
to make our invention obvious is. They say you would
have done this with Asano. What the experts say is this
Asano thing, no one would ever use it at all.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Who do you get to be
an expert to tell you something's not obvious.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: You get --

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: I mean, the least
insightful person you can find? (Laughter.)

MR. GOLDSTEIN: Mr. Chief Justice, we got a
Ph.D. and somebody who had worked in pedal design for 25
years.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Exactly.

That poor PhD Pedal designer.

 

[dik]

I've worked for several firms over the last 50 years and only one was large (SNC Lavalin)... I guess NORR could be considered large... there were only about 10 structural people but there were a lot of architects, mechanical and electrical engineers... all of them just left me alone to do my work. I've never had any interference.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[glass99]

I think it's a personality thing as to whether you like that kind of structure. There were some folks who got very stressed out by the diversity of work at my previous ~10 person firm. This one guy was always asking me to give him a copy of the procedure for doing whatever job it was. When I gave him a copy of a previous calc report, it wasn't exactly the same as what he was doing so he was paralyzed. I explained to him that figuring it out was part of the job which is obviously harder than plugging and chugging, but the payoff is you do get the latitude to actually design something. Some days it feels like hacking your way through the jungle with a machete, other days you feel like Elon Musk. He didn't last.

 

[IRstuff]

Maybe I've been lucky; if anything, I've been encouraged to not be in any box at all.

I've worked on troubleshooting the innards of integrated circuits to figuring out frozen orbits for satellite surveillance; the latter is still in work.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[GregLocock]

My latest, and greatest, is working out the gross dynamics of this test, in particular, can we accurately predict which vehicles will roll onto their sides? (most don't)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaOzE9JX-Kg

Notice the one at 1:34, having a good long think about whether to roll or not, while balancing on two tires.




Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[geotechguy1]

There's a good case to be made for working for smaller companies for a time period to gain broader experience. My experience has been that at small companies, experience is broad, but shallow, while at big companies it is deep and narrow.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Ben in both positions, boxed and wide-open. I learn what I can from the box positions as quickly as possible so I can move along to a wide-open position. I still learn from the former, but it's only in the latter that I get to make real use of what I know. If I'm not stretching my brain, I get bored quickly and start to fidget... I don't like fidgeting.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[phamENG]

I will say this - there are days when I would like nothing more than to have somebody tell me exactly what to do and how to do it. Those days were so much easier. Of course I made about 1/5th of what I make now, so there are some tradeoffs. But just to have a break every now and then....

 

[cranky108]

I guess it depends on your goals. To be something, or the take home money.
As someone who has always been in a bigger box, and was allowed to make some changes to the bigger project, it has been good.
But there are days when ...

To improve other people's lives is a goal we should all have. Taking home money is also a good goal.

 

[Sparweb]

Hi Fischstabchen,

You might want to read The Peter Principle.

"In a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence."

I think the book started as a sarcastic joke in the 70's. Since then it has evolved and gained broad acceptance as a common phenomenon in management.

 

[GregLocock]

The advantage of being put in a box is, paradoxically, mobility. Being in my box meant that I learnt a lot of useful skills in one area, easily described to a future employer in the same field. So I could bounce around the industry quite easily. Admittedly it did take 15 years to get out of that box into another one!

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

That's why I'm still down in the trenches... I know my limitations.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[IRstuff]

You need to be like Schrodinger's cat; a more recent reading of quantum mechanics is that not only is the cat neither dead nor alive, it's not even necessarily in the box to begin with.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[TheTick]

Jobs exist because there is work to be done. Most of that work is "in The Box".

Not all companies are as bad as you describe. Some value and encourage growth and excursions outside The Box. If it's important enough to you, keep moving until you find one.

I find that in engineering, anyone worth having to do a particular job absolutely will outgrow that job.