Competing firm advertises experience on my project 1

[JAE]

I recently found out that a firm in my state (ABC Engineering) is advertising structural engineering services, promoting an particular engineer. Their website suggests that he was responsible for a very large project design a number of years ago with another firm (DEF Engineering).

I know that he was an engineer in training at the time and worked for the support consultant (DEF Engineering) on the schematic/preliminary design of a portion of the structure, working under their PE.

The firm I was with, took the preliminary design from DEF Engineering and basically re-designed their portion of the structure as well as all of the rest of the structure.

Today, the engineer's new firm (ABC) is promoting him as though he was the design engineer on the whole thing. I know this isn't true as I was the chief structural engineer on the project. I did all the plans and details with my staff of engineers/drafters.

THE QUESTION:

I wish to write a letter to them, respectfully asking them to revise their promotion of their PE as the engineer of this large project.

Should I write to the engineer or to the president of the firm?

The president is ultimately responsible for the promotions so I'm leaning towards him - but the PE is responsible for obeying the laws of our state which explicitly prohibit exaggerating claims of experience.

 

[KENAT]

Why not both, with a CC to the state licensing board for effect?

It was common back in the UK for letters to be addressed to several folks.

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[rowingengineer]

Agree with Kenat, for the letter, but I would send two envelops addressed to the each person.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[jmw]

Be interesting to see what the engineer has to say.
One presumes either their Marketing department has taken his reported contribution and gone overboard, or he represented to them that he had in fact done all the work, either during his original job interview or subsequently.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Qshake]

jmw - I'm sorry to say that sometimes it's not the marketing staff but the engineer, especially a young one, who is willing to embellish in order to either preserve or further his career. A shame.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[KENAT]

I didn't mean to send a single letter, I meant to send copies of the letter to all 3 parties.

I realize the state board probably has little to no authority in this particular area, but if you're serious about addressing this and are happy with any potential consequences then why not CC them.

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[Ron]

JAE..his new firm might be acting in good faith on erroneous information that the engineer provided to them, though they should vet such claims.

I would address the letter jointly to the engineer and to the president of the firm. Send the letter to each. Cite the section of the statute that deals with the issue and cite an appropriate code of ethics that also deals with it. Let them know that you were the SEoR and that the advertisement is misleading and illegal. Let them know that if the website is not corrected within 10 days, you'll send a copy of the letter to the state board as part of a formal complaint of both the engineer and the firm.

Kenat...many state boards will take action on something like this, if a formal complaint is filed. Most engineering laws in the US have a provision to prevent this, either directly in the law or in rules of the state board that are supported by the law.

 

[KENAT]

Interesting Ron, I'd got the impression from others here that state boards really only acted if their was overwhelming evidence etc. and even then it might just get a warning letter or similar.

Then, I'm in exempt so don't follow this so closely.

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[IRstuff]

Insecure people are of all ages. I've run across one who was in his 50's and still felt the need to embellish his C.V.

TTFN

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[Ron]

Kenat...the most common "punishment" for such offenses is a letter of reprimand from the state board. In my home state, the statute rule is:

[highlight](g) In any brochure or other presentation made to any person or to the public at large, incident to the solicitation of an engineering employment, misrepresents pertinent facts concerning a professional engineer’s employer, employees, associates, joint ventures or his or their past accomplishments with the intent and purpose of enhancing his qualifications and his works.[/highlight]

....and the punishment:

[highlight](f) Fraudulent, false, deceptive or misleading advertising
(Section 471.033(1)(f), F.S., subsection 61G15-19.001(2), F.A.C.)

Minimum....Reprimand

Maximum....Reprimand, one (1) year probation and $5,000 fine[/highlight]

Do they act on every case? I don't know. I believe they are statutorily obligated to investigate every complaint.

 

[jmw]

It might be handy to include something in the letter just as Ron has done.
That might put the wind up someone.

They then have two choices, change the advert (which might negatively impact some contracts they are chasing) or make it true... they might offer you a job or - a retainer as a consultant, just so you're under contract... you might even get to do some work!


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

Ron, thanks for that. When I initially posted I was thinking there might be something like that in the PE regs, but the more I thought about it the less I thought it likely, given how govt generally works on this kind of thing.

You've restored my faith in regulatory bodies.;-)

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[SylvestreW]

Not to derail this but this leads me to another question.

If Engineer A worked on a project while at Company A, and engineer A leaves the company to join Company B.

1) Can Company A still advertise that they are responsible for the project?

2) Can Engineer A advertise that he/she worked on the project in Company B's marketing?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

1) I imagine yes, as long as that advertisement does not lead potential clients to believe the EoR is still on staff.

2) Yes, as it's factual. How marketing B gets around the fact that they were not the company doing the work could get interesting, though...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

The fun starts when company B is a start-up with a very similar product to the one that engineer A worked on when in company A. And then company B desribes engineer A as the originator of the product.

- Steve

 

[kelowna]

I have seen exactly that. A start up from two engineers who left the company I used to work for.

The website of their new company had a number of projects those engineers had managed. In each case it said something like 'Design manager for X project while employed by X company'.

When I saw it I remember thinking that it was strange but OK. After all, they are advertising their experience. In a way is like a resume, you do not remove jobs from a resume because they were done while working for a company that does not employ you anymore.

I think in this case the main issue is clarity.

Going back to JAE's original post, my approach would be less formal, maybe a phonecall and informal chat with the principal would solve the problem.

I have seen my share of creative / misleading / half true and fully false advertising. In one ocasion, a company that was consulted twice for material quality issues by the client on a job I was involved produced and advert which lead to believe they were the Designers.

 

[msquared48]

Simple thought here...

If #2 is not allowed, none of us that have worked for more than one firm would have any resume...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[JAE]

kelowna, the letter vs. phone call is what I'm currently debating over. I've written the letter and, while I think it is fair, professional, and even gracious (I compliment the other engineer's project experience beyond the project in question) I feel it would be taken as a lightning bolt out of the blue and they'd get all defensive. I haven't sent it yet ...just balking I guess.

The engineer has plenty of other work to promote himself with. Why he used a project from a long time ago, when he did fairly minor work on it, and was only and EIT while doing it is beyond me. It takes up half their website.

 

[rowingengineer]

JAE,
From your description this is a company offering professional engineering services. They should be acting professional, thus they should be welcoming corrections on this miss information they are providing to the world. If they get defensive then take them down. I'm a person that doesn’t go out of my way to cause ripples for people but when a company is doing wrong, I am happy to give them a touch up. Call them if you wish, but send the letter.

If they give you trouble, send the letter to the board and there clients, ok mayb not their clients.


Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[Ron]

JAE...the phone call would certainly soften the blow; but you might find that it won't necessarily reduce their negative response.

You might want to consider using the phone call as a professional courtesy to let them know your complaint and that you will be sending a letter as well, to document the complaint and the phone call. Unfortunately, I think it is necessary that you document your complaint to them in writing, whether or not you decide to phone them. That makes clear your intent, memorializes your effort, protects your integrity, and starts the clock.

It is easy to remember only what one wants to remember of an oral conversation; whereas, in writing it is generally clear.

Good luck. We all dread when these things come up.